Trackbacks & Pings

1. Are We Prepared for the Ministry? « Shanan Trail on 19 Aug 2008 at 9:17 am

   […] Antiracist Parent posted the question, “Dear ARP: Are my church’s actions influenced by racial prejudice?” in which a person related the following story: My husband and I are Christian and attended a […]

Comments

1. Jen* wrote:

   appalled. That’s what I am.

   I think I would most certainly have to move my membership. How idiotic!

   And how/why would this even occur to someone to ask? [other than an underlying prejudice]

   stories like this really hurt. but I’m glad you shared.

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 8:13 am ¶

2. Fat Lady wrote:

   I think this falls under the category of that age old question - do you take offense at the ignorance of others or do you take it as an opportunity to educate them?

   Unfortunately, many, many people know very little about Haiti or its inhabitants. They only know what they have heard in the news - and too often what they’ve heard in the news associates Haitian people and HIV.

   Should the pastor have take the time to educate himself before approaching your family with his concerns - absolutely! However, we know that, often, people don’t know how ignorant they are until it’s pointed out to them.

   I don’t know if the pastor’s actions and attitudes can really be considered racism. Would he have reacted this way to a brown child from NYC or Brazil or Jamaica? It seems that he was acting out of limited knowledge about people from Haiti specifically - not from a disdain for Black people in general.

   Because of this, and because of his discomfort with honestly and openly discussing this - I think I would have taken the opportunity to sit down and talk to him. To provide him with information. I would not have left the church altogether unless it was clear that the assistant pastor - and others in the church were not willing to be open-minded and inclusive of my child and my family.

   I think if you put yourself in a frame of mind to walk away from every situation in which you feel your child/children are being slighted because of their ethnicity or country of origin - then you will find yourself walking away from things all the time.

   It is natural and normal to feel offended, disappointed, slighted, angry, frustrated, etc. But you have to decide what to do with those feelings - decide how they shape your actions - decide what you want to teach your children about how to face situations where people reject, or don’t readily accept them. Do you really want them to spend their lives running away from every difficult situation?

   I would stay in the church. I would sit down with the assistant pastor - and would ask that the pastor be present as well. This is an opportunity for your church to be better, more inclusive, than ever before.

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 9:21 am ¶

3. Mayhem wrote:

   That’s pretty horrible. Sounds to me like they are pretending “concern” when the issue is really racism and discrimination. You have no obligation to the pastors or the church at all. How could you ever relax and feel spiritually at home there again? I’d like to echo what Tami said– having your trust broken by someone you trusted is hard, especially when that person is someone you looked to for leadership, and you did the right thing by moving on.

   I hope you can find someplace to worship where your whole family “fits.”

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 11:01 am ¶

4. k.c.w. wrote:

   As a former educator (@ home now) & a nursery worker for 10+ years…all workers should take universal precautions for all children - gloves with diaper changes & blood or any bodily fluids. I wish I could invite you to our church because I’d Love to Love on your little boy as you worship Our Father!

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 11:59 am ¶

5. Multicultural Family wrote:

   I agree 100% with Fat Lady!!

   These are your brothers and sisters in Christ. It doesn’t mean that they have as much knowledge as you do! Please, take this time to educate them. Show them Christ’s love. People can make stupid comments, but it doesn’t mean their heart is in the wrong place.

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 12:14 pm ¶

6. jama wrote:

   You are clearly an amazing advocate for your children and I commend you. I had a similar experience when I moved to a new, white, upper class neighborhood. The next door neighbor came and asked if my Kenyan daughter was HIV positive. We had literally been in the house 2 hours. I had a choice, educate this clearly ignorant person or move. It was about my children not educating the world. I chose to find a more inclusive community that embraces both of my children. I would do the same for a church. Your community is formed in many ways and two of the most fundamental are where you live and where you worship. If you are not comfortable, your children won’t be either. I try in all things I do to make sure that I am the minority, not my children. It’s not always possible but it surely changed our lives for the better when I put that as a guiding principle.
   Good luck and congratulations on a great decision.
   By the way, we did stay in that house for 2 years and our ongoing struggle with racism and fear was pervasive throughout our experiences there.

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 12:20 pm ¶

7. SF Mom wrote:

   Yep, sounds like racist prejudice. I’d say you should change churches anyway if your child is the “only brown baby in the nursery”. I recommend taking a look at the places your family goes in your daily round. You may need to make more changes to avoid your child being the “only”. I can’t emphasize enough how important that is, for the adoptive parents to make those changes.

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 1:13 pm ¶

8. Cam M wrote:

   I’m sorry, but I totally think you’re being unfair to the assistant pastor. We do hear about the high prevalence of HIV/AIDS constantly on the news. And he does have a need to watch out for the welfare of those children in the nursery. Given babies are all about bodily fluids, I don’t think it’s an unfair question whether they need to take special care and educate those involved. It has nothing to do with your baby’s race, and everything to do with working with the knowledge you have. Even the Embassy of Haiti says the Aids rate in Haiti is 4-6%, which is insane.

   You’ll know racism when you hit it. Right now you’re being overly sensitive to your baby and completely insensitive to those around you.

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 1:21 pm ¶

9. Lyonside wrote:

   Wait… so AFTER the pastor received the letter, he STILL didn’t know whether to apologize? Sheesh…

   Fat Lady: I think you’re giving the pastor and assistant too much credit. Kimberly S. DID give education in that letter, as well as gave a heads up that the parish that they had legal responsibilities to change their protocols (every caretaker of children or adults needs to take precautions, basically acting as if anyone and everyone could have something communicable/needs to be protected from something communicable - that’s how most School Districts roll).

   Kimberly also stated that she didnt’ KNOW why her son was singled out - no accusations outright… and the pastor tried to make it out that SHE had the problem. But when the only brown child in the nursery is singled out, and there is a lot of tapdancing around the issue, how can someone not think that appearance plays at least a subliminal factor? How much benefit of the doubt can you give a person?

   Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 1:28 pm ¶

10. Anne wrote:

    About 20 years ago, a co-worker from Haiti had his treatment for tetanus delayed since the doctors assumed that his symptoms were due to AIDS, rather than the infection he got from getting hurt while gardening. He did finally get treatment and recovered. It’s sad to hear that things haven’t changed much for people from Haiti.

    Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 2:28 pm ¶

11. Lyonside wrote:

    Wanted to make this a seperate comment:
    Personal Anecdote time:

    Picture it: Philadelphia, 2004. A large Catholic university known for its basketball team. My now-husband and I were attending Pre-Cana classes [Catholic marriage prep] for the weekend (he’s not Catholic, I am). That Friday night, I’d absently noted that my boy and I were the only visably ethnic minorities; he was also the only one w/out a college degree in the class (for some reason, everyone felt the need to say where they’d gone to school and their jobs) We had gotten there just as the class started, but other couples were 30 minutes late.

    So Saturday, my fiance was running 20 minutes late because his boss had told him nicely to work that Saturday morning. We tried to make as little disturbance as possible, etc.

    When we scattered into small groups to do a worksheet, I had an angry priest looming over me (preventing me from standing, natch), and telling me that 1) I had no respect for myself or the class or him, 2) since I couldn’t commit to the class, he questioned my committment to my entire relationship and upcoming marriage.

    He also said “Don’t give me any lip.” Which is funny since I’d never had a conversation w/ the man before that moment. Also, I was practically raised by nuns. I KNOW how to talk to clergy.

    He then said about the same thing to my fiance across the room. I grabbed the boy and had an emotional breakdown outside of the building. I finally calmed down enough to go back in and tell Father Irrational that we were withdrawing from the course. He didn’t try to make us stay.

    When my hands stopped shaking, I wrote a very clear, professional letter similar to Kimberly’s. I stated the events as they occurred from my POV, and what he could have done differently (a private room, for one - there were tons available). I quoted the “lip” line, expressed my bafflement and the double standard in force, and told him that I had no proof on why we were being singled out… but I did mention that we were the only visable ethnic minorities, the only couple with only 1 college degree, and the only couple with an obviously blue collar job between us, just as possibilities. I namedropped my parish and told him that since the course had been recommended to other couples in our parish, I’d bring up my concerns at the next Pastoral Council meeting (and did I mention I was on it?) Then I asked for a refund.

    I also CC’d the Archdiocese’s Family Life Office and Office of Black Catholics. Would have CC’d the Latino outreach office, but couldn’t find an address.

    Those CC’s did it. The priest ended up calling me, and apologized for his outburst (but would not for the life of him tell me WHY we’d been singled out - I’m not sure he even knew). I got 1/2 my money back.

    But I still flinch every time someone suggests that uni for grad school. And my husband now roots against their BBall team.

    Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 2:38 pm ¶

12. CJsDaddy wrote:

    Hmmm, this smacks of racism, or some kind of awful bias/prejudice for sure. This is one of those “know it when I see it” times when I just cannot imagine any other parents being approached this way. Two things happened - first - the ugliness of thinking it’s OK to ask you the status of HIV testing; second - the fact that he implied that the answer mattered.

    My bet is that another parishioner did in fact express concern and this was his way of keeping them confidential. Because of his own ignorance and/or bias, he simple was not equipped with the proper answers.

    I have a slightly different take. If this were a typical professional relationship (such as a doctor or preschool) I’d agree that it’s not your responsibility to educate.

    As a Christian, you do have a responsibility to point out a person’s sins against you, not just their potential legal liabilities. Given that they want to meet with you, the door is still open to a learning experience for them. I understand the hurt and frustration you are experiencing, but also consider that all Christians have areas where they need to grow and learn, even ministers. If they are not open and responsive to your concerns at the meeting, then perhaps you should move on. Not saying you should not move on, just that your concern should be clearly expressed before doing so.

    Sorry for getting so “religious” but given the context of the question, I think it’s appropriate.

    Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 4:17 pm ¶

13. Lisa (Blah Blah) wrote:

    I have to say I agree with Tami and Lyonside here. You clearly explained why you were upset that your child was singled out. The whole premise of the Assistant Pastor’s question is absurd in the extreme. Even if your child were positive, HIV is not communicable through a church nursery — unless the children are sharing needles, engaging in unprotected sex, or giving each other blood transfusions. I don’t know what goes on at your church, but I’m betting that is pretty unlikely!

    It also speaks volumes that the Assistant Pastor seems only to want to speak with your husband and not with you — after all, you wrote the letter. Even if he doesn’t understand why you are offended, he should communicate directly with you and apologize for offending you, intentionally or not. Furthermore, you have already tried to educate him not just about HIV and AIDS but also about discrimination based on HIV status. He doesn’t seem to *want* to get it.

    This is certainly a situation where you have to think of your child first. I support your decision to find another house of worship, and second the idea that perhaps you could find one where he and his brother will not be the only brown faces, if possible.

    I’m sorry that this happened to you and wish you and your family the best.

    Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 4:44 pm ¶

14. Mrs._Lioness wrote:

    Jama said it “It was about my children not educating the world.”

    Commentors like Fat Lady, Multicultural Family, & Cam M are putting the education of the pastors over the mental health of your child. And I don’t think any good parent would really do that.

    And as others have mentioned Kimberly DID educate through her letter - how much longer was she supposed to stick it out - until her child was the victim of some cruel “ignorant” comment?

    The fact is if one wants to take on educating the ignorant as their job that is one thing, but to make your child stick it out in a clearly biased and backwards environment for the sole purpose of enlightening others is just plain cruel and a total waste of time.

    There are situations that sometimes I feel the need to speak up in - like this forum - but it is not my responsibility to educate the masses on their ignorance at the expense of my family’s well being.

    Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 5:02 pm ¶

15. Liza wrote:

    Sounds like you did all the great parenting here - you served as an advocate for your son, your family, and for others in your church. And, you did try to educate your Pastor by writing a well composed letter that was based in fact. Reading it, I felt like the message was “hey, I think you should know this to protect your church and its people”. From my lens, I work in a Catholic college that I do find to be very welcoming, and at the same time, lots of people have lots of work to do in dismantling their own biases.

    If the leadership did humbly come to you, apologize, and thank you for the education, then I might consider staying, especially if it was a good community for you. But, they didn’t take that high road — rather, they went only to your husband and phrased it as if there was “something wrong with you.” Yeah, typical — not of religious, but rather of people who don’t “get it.”

    While your son isn’t here with you yet, and your other son is likely too young to understand it, you’re teaching them (by doing) a wonderful lesson in standing up for injustice.

    Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 6:20 pm ¶

16. Liza wrote:

    a word correction in my post (had my toddler yanking at my arm while typing)….

    “… you’re teaching them (by doing) a wonderful lesson in standing up AGAINST injustice.”

    Yup, I would never advocate standing up FOR injustice…

    Posted 06 Aug 2008 at 7:51 pm ¶

17. Kohana wrote:

    I think that the pastor’s inquiry into your son’s HIV status was innapropriate and illegal. It definitely does seem like your child was discriminated against, but was that because of his ethnicity? People have said that he was the only “brown” child in the nursury, and that is why he was singled out, but I’d also assume he was the only child recently arrived from a country with a high HIV rate with little access to health care, and the only child with discernable special needs? It doesn’t justify the pastor’s questioning*, but I would keep an open mind to know if it was soley race-based.

    That, for me, is one of the hardest parts of parenting a child of color, and not being of color myself: dissecting situations that offend (and damage), to know which tool to respond with. There are many situations where it can be hard to decide whether to educate, to shun, to retorn, to overlook… It’s a journey for all of us, and we all learn to navigate situations that rattle us. I think you did a great job of educating your pastor, and giving him concrete information on the rights of HIV+ persons. I hope you find a place that is supportive of your son, and your family!

    *Would churches be obligated to follow any of the state guidelines concerning universal care standards?

    Posted 07 Aug 2008 at 2:33 am ¶

18. Michelle @ Bridge Co wrote:

    Just a thought on another note besides the HIV slight- it is time to find a new church so your sons are not the only brown people in the church every week.

    Also pick and choose your battles. Sometimes you educate and sometimes you move on to a more comfortable place for you and your family’s sanity. This will not be the first or last racial thing you face as a multiracial family- pick and choose the battles!

    Posted 07 Aug 2008 at 10:22 am ¶

19. Lyonside wrote:

    >*Would churches be obligated to follow any of the state guidelines concerning universal care standards?

    Short answer: Yes, or something similar. My mother is both a public school teacher (preschool) and volunteers with our Catholic parish. In the parish, she is currently a sacristan (glorified stage crew for services), and has been a religious education teacher. She has had Safe Environment seminars in both spheres(which cover how to detect abuse or potential for abuse and common sense things like arranging a classroom or office for optimum visability and accountability, etc. )

    And she also uses Universal Health Procedures (at least that’s what her district calls them) that basically follow guidelines from the state health authorities about how to treat children/adults in the case of emergency, precautions to take, etc. Basically the assumption is that ANYONE could have a communicable disease, so caregivers and first responders should always wear gloves/masks as appropriate when dealing with body fluids. These procedures are the same as used by the church after school care and summer camp, and also in my kid’s private non-denom day care center.

    Posted 07 Aug 2008 at 10:57 am ¶

20. Perdita wrote:

    One thing I noticed in your post is that the Associate Pastor seems to some trouble communicating directly with you (it sounds like he didn’t really read your letter if he thinks there’s another “underlying” issue!), and I’m convinced he’s also got some gender issues. In that case, it makes your job to “educate” doubly difficult! Maybe he thinks every time a woman gets concerned over an issue, it’s due to an “underlying” issue, like, um, hormones…

    Anyway, I agree that you made your effort (although Lyonside’s idea of CC-ing the letter to others is a great one) and that you did the right thing to go to another church where your children will be better received–and treated. They are your first priority and Mr. Associate Pastor will have to stumble along on his own route to enlightenment. I’m sure he will run into more opportunities soon!

    Posted 07 Aug 2008 at 11:24 am ¶

21. PureGracefulTree wrote:

    Hi Kimberly,

    First, I’m so, so sorry that happened to you. It is bad enough to face racism anywhere, but to have it done in a house of worship from someone you trust and look to for spiritual guidance is even worse.

    I’ve been lurking here and on Racialicious for a while but I’ve finally been moved to comment because of how much this resonates with my own experience in my faith community. I attend an Unitarian Universalist church, in which the guiding principles do not involve specific beliefs but rather a commitment to justice and recognizing the inherent worth of all. When about two years ago I began hearing anti-Asian racist comments from fellow congregants who were tired of “being the only white person in their neighborhood” and “all the Asians taking over the good schools”, I went to my minister to tell him of my distress at both the comments. His response was along the lines of “Well, you have to understand that for some people it’s really difficult to interact with folks of other cultures” and proceeded to “explain” to me why I needed to have compassion for these white people. Later, after I shared my story with some others and there was an interest in some kind of workshop for those who wanted to learn how to challenge racist speech in a loving and effective manner, my minister did his best to discourage it, claiming that “sometimes calling attention to such remarks can do more damage than just letting them be out there.”

    So I think I can identify with feelings of betrayal from someone whom you trust to be on your side, especially someone who’s supposed to be a spiritual leader. And I struggle daily with the burden of always being the one to educate…the pastor is allowed to be human and his ignorance deserves compassion, whereas you aren’t, and your anger doesn’t? Why is it always up to people of color to take the high road? If you can, more power to you—you are a far better follower of Christ than many. But I don’t think anyone has the right to demand that of you. I wish you and your family all the best in finding what you need.

    Posted 07 Aug 2008 at 1:41 pm ¶

22. Denise wrote:

    Hi Kimberly. I can see why you were so mad…some people just don’t have the tact they need, even if they’re in a leadership position. When we adopted for the second time we knew our Birthmom was HIV positive so we researched the subject thoroughly. What we discovered was that we wouldn’t be putting ourselves or our other kids in danger by living with the baby even if the baby turned out to be HIV positive, which was very unlikely anyway, seeing as only .01% of kids in Canada (I’m not sure about the U.S.) test positive when they’re born to HIV positive mothers. I was so surprised that we, educated middle class people, didn’t know this. How could we hear so much about HIV/AIDS but nothing about how impossible it is to catch it by living with an HIV positive person? Crazy. Somehow our health ministry has missed the boat on spreading this news. Anyway, our son tested negative but I felt so strongly about this that I began to educate everyone I knew about it. I thought it was a real sin that the toughest thing parents of HIV positive kids have to deal with is eduating those around them. And the kids too, they’re set up as HIV educators right from birth! That’s wrong on so many levels. I also made sure our church nursery started following universal precautions so nobody in the future would have to feel they had a responsibility to disclose, even if they didn’t want to. I think you should sit your associate pastor down, educate him fully, reprimand him for his lack of tact in a position of leadership, and insist on universal precautions so no one else has to go through this. Then, if you can, chalk it up to a learning experience, or, if you can’t, move on. Maybe it’s in your calling to be an educator at another church too. Either way, it’s important that you have a comfortable place to continue to worship so your children grow up in the faith and you’ll see them one day in heaven.

    Posted 07 Aug 2008 at 2:46 pm ¶

23. CJsDaddy wrote:

    After reading some of the other comments, I would revise mine a bit to ensure that your priority is to your family first. I doubt anyone advocating working to educate the pastors would suggest you leave your child vulnerable to harm.

    Still - I can tell you flat out that 5 years ago I would not have seen anything wrong with what your pastors were doing, and may have initially argued with you about it. So, I’m suggesting maybe a fact to face meeting with you and your husband where they see the emotional hit they are causing might be beneficial. That doesn’t mean you won’t walk - just that the lines of communication are still open.

    Posted 07 Aug 2008 at 2:49 pm ¶

24. BCmomtobe wrote:

    I am glad you chose to go to another church. At the absolute very least, the associate pastor showed bias toward your son. If he knew as much about HIV, and adoption, as he seems to think he does, he would know that children are tested for HIV before they are even allowed into the country. At least that is how it is in Canada.

    I’m also under the impression that this man does not know how to talk to women, and is disinclined to take us seriously.

    Enjoy your new church, and your little ones.

    Posted 07 Aug 2008 at 5:29 pm ¶

25. voodooflaneur wrote:

    I am from the country in question and the facsinating thing about this subject is that everyone is skirting around the issue at hand. First of all, this woman does not need a leader or a spiritual adviser. She is a grown woman. If she needs to believe in a fairy tale that is fine but let’s not continue the charade by calling this ignoramus her spiritual leader. Someone mentioned that the HIV rate in Haiti is 4-6% so that tells me that 94-96% of the people are HIV free. So let’s say a poor segregated African-American neighborhood has a crime rate of 40% so should we put up a wall and keep these people in their neighborhoods and demand that anyone from that area wear a special tracking device when they want to visit other areas that have a low crime rate. I also worked in an area where the African-American population HIV rate is extremely high. We are talking about one of the richest states in the US. So should all these people’s children be bannned from the schools and their churches?

    Posted 08 Aug 2008 at 4:34 pm ¶

26. CJsDaddy wrote:

    “If she needs to believe in a fairy tale that is fine but let’s not continue the charade by calling this ignoramus her spiritual leader.”

    Wow. I have to say I’m really surprised the comment was approved an a site the promotes tolerance and understanding. What fairy tail exactly is being referenced here?

    But since it was - I think voodooflaneur is missing the point. The Christian woman who submitted the original question does believe she needs a spiritual leader, otherwise she would not be so hurt by the actions of the ones she had previously trusted. Some of us are suggesting she simply move on, and others are suggesting she should make a final effort to educate her former pastors. I don’t think anyone should be critical of this family whichever approach they take.
    Blessings!

    Posted 08 Aug 2008 at 8:10 pm ¶

27. Lyonside wrote:

    >, seeing as only .01% of kids in Canada (I’m not sure about the U.S.) test positive when they’re born to HIV positive mothers.

    Denise: I’m guessing the US rates are about equivalent in HIV+ mothers who are on antiviral medications throughout pregnancy and labor. I also think a dose is usually given to the newborn as a precaution.

    Now, what percentage of HIV+ mothers aren’t aware of it and/or don’t have the antiviral meds is a whole ‘nother story that involves population centers and medical systems between Canada and the US.

    Posted 08 Aug 2008 at 8:45 pm ¶

28. Marian wrote:

    I’m shocked by how many are quick to jump in here and unequivocally label the intentions of this man’s heart and actions as racist. It is totally unfair.

    When my daughter arrived in our family from an African nation, the director of our very large nursery system, an African-American woman, wanted to know that all parasite issues were addressed. I was not offended in the slightest.

    She, like the pastor here, had a responsibility to insure the health and safety of all children and families who used the nursery. She would also be the person questioned should any other parent have a concern, and she would need to have enough information to generally reassure someone if necessary.

    A direct question about HIV/AIDS might reveal ignorance of the facts about transmission and legal privacy, but it does necessarily reveal racism. HIV/AIDS, parasites and other forms of illness not common in our country are, unfortunately, common in many other areas of teh world. That’s just a fact, and it is not racism to know the facts.

    I don’t know this man’s heart and intentions any more than anyone else, but the facts don’t seem to point strongly to it. It sounds like grace, along with a committment to education and communication are what’s in order here, not indignation and abandoning the church fellowship.

    Such hyper-sensitivity harms honest communication and progress on real issues of racism.

    (Special needs and acting out in church are also very complicated issues within churches that require much grace and love on ALL sides, by the way. One of my children has autism. I know.)

    Posted 10 Aug 2008 at 9:07 pm ¶

29. Marian wrote:

    Um, yeah, that sentence up above would be,
    “… does NOT necessarily reveal racism!”

    Posted 10 Aug 2008 at 9:14 pm ¶

30. Tami Winfrey Harris wrote:

    Marian,

    I just want to point out that just because an African American person says something doesn’t mean it isn’t race biased. We grow up internalizing the same white supremacist ideals as everyone else in the country. Most of us know no more about Africa than the “dark continent” propaganda that every other American has been fed.

    “A black person said so” is rarely sufficient evidence of something not being race biased.

    Posted 11 Aug 2008 at 5:39 am ¶

31. Sarah wrote:

    I just want to add after reading all the comments that I am a good friend of Kimberly and that she is definitely the type of person to “overreact” or “get upset” all the time over things. She picks and chooses her battles very wisely and would never want to not give someone “the benefit of doubt”.
    In this case I support my friend. The way that her family has been treated is NOT right. It is wrong, it is racist no matter what way you slice it- whether it be because of ignorance or hate. I am glad that her family has moved on.

    Posted 11 Aug 2008 at 8:08 pm ¶

32. marian wrote:

    Dear Tami,
    Just checked back and saw your comment on mine.
    I was not using, “a black person said so,” as “evidence ” that it was not race biased. The reason I don’t believe her actions were race biased is that 1) it just makes logical sense that, in her position, she would be concerned about the health and safety of all in the nursery, and 2) concern about parasites,spread easily among the diaper-clad, is very valid based on the facts about babies coming from an orphanage living situation; it is not dark continent propaganda . I added the fact of her race more peripherally, not as “proof.”

    “An African-American person
    (or Asian, or Caucasian, or pick-any-single- representative-of- an-entire-people-group) said so,” would be an extremely ignorant and racist basis for forming conclusions. I totally understand your point about people believing the same mythology, regardless of race. But I’m so sorry that you seem to have read that whole line of thinking into my comment, because that’s not where I’m coming from at all.

    Posted 12 Aug 2008 at 11:41 pm ¶

33. Lyonside wrote:

    Marian:

    >2) concern about parasites,spread easily among the diaper-clad, is very valid based on the facts about babies coming from an orphanage living situation; it is not dark continent propaganda .

    Um, because Kimberly S. wouldn’t have had her son checked out by medical professionals? Even if her son had had that level of poor medical care and living situations in Haiti (something she did not say), he wouldn’t have gotten the normal standard of health care once he was living with her? Seriously, it comes across as an excuse for singling a child out.

    When people take one look at a dark-skinned child and assume that the child is 1) diseased, 2) a physical threat, 3) doomed to be trouble, 4) any and all of the above, then yes, that is “dark continent propoganda.” Even when it does come from other people with dark-skin. Internalized racism can be bone-deep.

    Posted 14 Aug 2008 at 9:05 am ¶

34. Harlem Joe wrote:

    I agree with voodooflaneur. If a “white” pastor were to pose the same question about an african-american child in his congregation, considering the disproportionate percentage of african-americans vs “whites” with HIV, he would have been unanimously slammed. The pastor’s first problem was that he was stereotyping in assuming the the child’s Haitian background made him “at risk” for AIDS. His second problem was the matter of why he felt it was any of his business to begin with. It seems quite fair to me that he was interested in knowing quite simply so that he could discriminate.

    CJsDaddy is being unfair and is unjustified in criticizing voodooflaneur. It is clear that this man’s position of “spiritual authority” is the fundamental basis of his misdeeds. One must not confuse intolerance with a disapproval of intolerance. It is precisely through the use of fairy tales that such con-men and charlatans get away with such despicable acts.

    Posted 23 Aug 2008 at 12:11 am ¶

35. cathie wrote:

    the pastor should be asking that of all the babies in the nursery if he is so concerned about hiv. when my african child was an infant i would get asked by people if the mother was on drugs. some people are incredibly insensitive, intrusive and nosey.

    Posted 13 Sep 2008 at 2:26 am ¶

Post a Comment