Do I need to travel to China?
Crossposted from Mixed Race America
Today at Staples I was waiting to make 5 photocopies at the single copier that was working. An elderly gentleman (probably in his 70s) was photocopying what looked to be (and turned out to be) his legal life documents. He was affable enough–even offered to interrupt his copies to let me jump in, but he said he was almost done and in an effort to fit in more to Southern norms and culture (ie: to be more patient) I said it was OK for me to wait and he really was done within about 7 minutes (a long time for me but in the scheme of things, probably not a big deal).
At any rate, as he finished up, he turned his attention to me and asked: “Are you Hawaiian?”
Let me pause here and note that I was wearing a brown sundress that showed off a lot of my skin, which at this point in the summer is a fairly healthy caramel color. I also had my hair down, and I don’t know if these things are stereotypically “Hawaiian” or not but I also have to say that when I have been mistaken for “Hawaiian” it’s normally older white American men whose dalliance with the South Pacific has taken the form of a trip to Oahu or Maui where I’m sure they’ve seen lots of Chinese, Japanese, and Filipino Americans who are local and hence “Hawaiian” and perhaps I do look like them. I should also add, though I’m sure you can guess, that this older man is white.
Anyway, I say: “No”
And he insists that I look Hawaiian and I shrug my shoulders and say I’m not, at which point he asks the dreaded question that ALL ASIAN AMERICANS HAVE HAD TO ANSWER AND THAT MOST OF US HATE: “Where ARE you from? Which country?”
Me (sighing inside–I mean, I just want to make 5 lousy photocopies): “I’m from the United States of America.”
Him, now a bit flustered: “No, I know that, I mean, where are your parents from…where are your people from?”
Me (not willing to give in): “California”
Him: (now he’s bemused and acting like I’m retarded rather than being frustrated by my obvious deference of his questions): “No, I mean what is your ancestry? Where are your ancestors from?”
To which I tell him that if he’s asking about my ethnic background, it’s China/Chinese.
Him: “Oh! Ni hao?”
Me (now being deliberately obtuse): “Sir, if you are inquiring as to whether I speak Cantonese or Mandarin, I do not.”
Him: (now laughing amiably because he thinks we’re having a jolly little conversation): “Oh, I’ve been to China several times and have picked up a few useful phrases. Have you ever visited China?”
Me: (now just annoyed, I mean, he’s a nice older fellow, but really, I JUST WANT TO MAKE MY PHOTOCOPIES): “No, I’ve never been to China.”
Him: (he’s now VERY SURPRISED and in ADVICE mode): “But you HAVE to go to China. It’s where your people are from!”
And I just shrugged and made my photocopies and he left, finally.
And so, here’s the question: Do I really NEED to go to China? My Mom grew up in Jamaica (yes, I omitted that from our conversation because I really didn’t want to be talking to the man in the first place) and my father fled China in the 1950s. There are no close relatives in China, that I know of. I don’t speak Cantonese or Mandarin. I have nothing against China–I would love to walk on the Great Wall, to visit Shanghai, to see the Weigar population of Western China. But there are also places I’d love to go: Italy, Tibet, Costa Rica, Kenya, the Galapagos Islands, Great Britain. Do I owe China a top priority because I have an ethnic connection?
Carmen Van Kerckhove is co-founder and president of 
Natalie wrote:
I think that you are not ready for the trip to China - based on your responses to this encounter as well as my own experience with Chinese Americans in China. It is a difficult experience, in that you will stand out as different, and the Chinese will not (in my experience) embrace that or make it comfortable for you.
By all means go to all those other places instead.
Through those experiences, and time, you may reach a place where you will really value that trip to China, and then it will be time to take it. You’ll know it, when you get there.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 9:50 am ¶
E wrote:
I can see why this situation was so frustrating. My wife is Mexican-American (at least two generations in this country) and so has no real ties to Mexico in terms of relatives and has never been there either. And of course people assume she must be more recently from there and that she speaks fluent Spanish (thankfully she does though , and I say that because I think being bilingual is a good thing).
But you know what? I do think going to China should be on your list (maybe not the top) if you can afford it. As an African-American, I too have string desires to travel to many places - Brazil, Japan, China, Tibet, India, but I also think it is important that I and my children see Africa at some point. I think people seeing the land where your roots are (even many generations ago roots) is important to really understanding and accepting ourselves. This is more true when our countries are not-European, since educationally it is easy for all of us to want to see Rome and Paris and London, etc, since European places and history are at the forefront of America’s consciousness.
But when I go there and my kids go there, we can’t help but know that we are celebrating someone else’s roots. And don’t get me wrong, we want to celebrate all of the world’s roots and cultures. But my wife and I do believe that while doing that we need to also let our kids know it is a priority to get to Mexico and to Africa. If we do not, I think in a way we are telling them that their heritage is not as important, not as thrilling.
So I don’t think you should go because someone thinks as a person of Chinese heritage you must, but I think you should go because it will give you insight into yourself.
Just a thought.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 9:51 am ¶
edenZ wrote:
Nope. I’m sure that guy’s ancestors were from Europe somewhere - do you think he feels the need to visit that/those coutries because he has an ethinic connection?
I’m part Russian and part Irish - but no one expects me to visit those places b/c of some ancestor I’ve never even met.
Some people do feel a connection to the area/country of their ethnic heritage - which is fine - but it’s not compulsory.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 10:16 am ¶
Liza wrote:
Ah…. the conversation nearly every one of us has had to endure. Sad to know it happens with such familiarity that I can picture the exchange exactly.
It’s my gut instinct to react differently when it’s a fellow POC asking me those types of questions (which, they have) or if it’s a white person asking me. There is so much historical context in there.
Two quick things from me:
a) I kept hearing the “you should really go to the Philippines and see where ‘your people are from’” from people. So, I did. Not necessarily to reconcile some sort of cultural/racial/ethnic desire, but really, to connect with family members who I had never met. It was important for me to go to the Philippines and see where my parents grew up, where my cousins live, where my mom and dad went grocery shopping prior to coming to the U.S. in 1974. I mean, it was a great cultural and family trip. But, it certainly takes on a different meaning when someone tells me I should go. Though, lots of older Filipinos in the U.S. also tell me I should go. For me, it really depends on the messenger.
b) I think, intially, the guy was probably being nice - but he crossed the line when he busted out with the “Ni hao.” I’m sure he was just trying to connect on a personal level with you, but .. urgh. I mean, what did he expect you to respond with … “Oooh! Great job! You know ‘ni hao!’”?
Do I think you have to make China an ethnic priority? No. For me, going to the Philippines helped me have a deeper appreciation for my parents, my sisters, and for my family living there. And, that experience helped me to formulate new ideas about my Fil-Am experience.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 11:01 am ¶
atlasien wrote:
I went to China and thought it was a very moving. My ancestry is Japanese, but Japanese culture owes a huge amount to China. It’s sort of analogous to an Irish person visiting Rome.
However, that man was being a racist tool. I despise those obnoxious amateur anthropologists who think they have the right to measure other people’s cultural authenticity. Where are HIS people from and why doesn’t he speak HIS ancestral language?
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 11:15 am ¶
Zoe wrote:
You are much more patient than I. I might have asked him, “Sir, where are YOUR ancestors from? ” Upon hearing his answer, I would’ve muttered some butchered version of his ancestors’ native language(s) and advised him to visit HIS own homeland(s) to get in touch with his roots.
As to whether you should really travel to China, I’d say that’s a rhetorical question. I’m 1/2 Chinese, and my Chinese American father was born in Illinios, and my ethnically Chinese grandparents consider themselves more Taiwanese than Chinese (grandmother was born in China but fled to Taiwan during the war; grandfather was born in Taiwan). I’ve been to China numerous times, but I don’t really feel a connection to “my” people there–I’m a sociologist who studies contemporary Chinese art, and it’s less a personal and more of a professional journey for me. Each person is different. I’m also half Greek, and honestly, I feel more of a “homecoming” when I go to Greece because my mom’s parents still live there. Everyone identifies with one’s ancestral land(s) differently (or not at all). Some well-intentioned but nevertheless ignorant guy in Staples has no right to tell you what’s best for you.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 12:45 pm ¶
Jay wrote:
Yeah, flip the question on him and ask him where he was from. He has no right to determine your identity for you.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 4:52 pm ¶
Habladora wrote:
This guy was other-ing you. Perhaps he didn’t intend to be mean-spirited about it, but his continued questioning refused you a place as fully American. No stranger ever asks me where I’m from if they don’t hear me speaking in Spanish - people see me as white, so I must belong here. I’m sure you’d love China, since you’re the type of person who loves travel and new experiences. Yet, his insistence that you must visit China after you’ve explained that you were raised in California… it implies that you need to see the ‘home’ he’s decided you belong to instead of the home you’ve always known.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 5:02 pm ¶
Mike C wrote:
Of course you don’t need to visit China if you don’t want to! I’d say, turn the tables on him — once he starts with the Ni Hao and grill him about whether he’s visited the various places his ancestors came from. Everyone came from somewhere, and most people, especially old white people, love talking about themselves. That’d take the pressure off of you and on to him, allow you to shift to listening with half an ear, and hopefully let you get on with your copying at the same time.
Maybe he’s just really well-travelled and thinks everyone should be.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 9:28 pm ¶
Kes wrote:
You should visit China because you will get an ultimate sense of belonging.
Think about it, for as long as you’ve been in America there have been people telling you that you don’t “technically” belong here.
That you are a citizen, but not really American.
However in China, it’s the reverse. You can say you’re American as much as you want, but the people there will consider you their own.
They will consider you Chinese, no questions asked.
Yes, I know you may also find that frustrating as well, but their actions are out of kinship.
Because by the mere color of your skin, they will accept you as one of their own.
And that type of feeling is amazing.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 9:57 pm ¶
jen* wrote:
Funny. I get that, too. They ask me if I’m Hawaiian, Dominican, Puerto Rican, Indian, Native American…
I’m mixed with black and white, but people ask me where I’m from all the time. First, they ask my nationality. I say I’m American. Then they ask where my parents are from - I say Pa. and Ga. That usually stymies them. And all I keep thinking is - what’s the point? Is there some kind of prize for ‘guessing my origin’?
If you want to go to China, cool. Do you need to go? I’d say no.
Sometimes people have accused my sister of being ashamed of her Latina heritage. Both of us have been told that we should speak Spanish. We have no Latin or Hispanic roots. Basically, other people cannot tell you what/where you should know/be/do/go.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 9:59 pm ¶
CJsDaddy wrote:
Habladora is exactly right. White American’s see America as a white country, so there’s really know where for us to go back to and visit. This fellow sees this as no different than if a Brit in Britain told you the same thing.
Should you visit China? That’s entirely up to you - no one should be telling you what to do. That said, I don’t know that it’s worth getting worked up over the guy - he actually sounded rather likable and really harmless. As a WASP though, it’s pretty easy for me to see him as harmless, so I could be wrong.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 10:42 pm ¶
Elizabeth wrote:
I understand how difficult it is to be subjected to questions about your ethnic identity. I am asked almost daily, “are they yours?” (about my interracial, inter-cultural children). And for my whole life people love to ask my where my last name came from, rarely getting it’s origins correct.
It’s about having that conversation over and over again, and having to stand up for a race, ethnicity or culture, all the while being pigeon-holed so someone else can feel more comfortable. It sucks, it’s time consuming, and some days I just don’t want to have the conversation, again! Some days I don’t want to stand-up and represent all inter-racial couples, all the interracial families, etc. I hate the staring, the comments and the time it takes out of my day to explain….
But I have come to realize that if I am truly going to be an ARP I have to bite my lip and have the conversation. I have to engage in the eye-rolling tedium of the conversation I have had a million times because I stand for something and I DO want to live in an environment like ARP.com where there is a place for everyone to ask questions and feel supported. If we are ever going to shift the consciousness on this planet we have to be patient with the “children” of the diversity movement. (And when I say children I mean the naive people who ask the ’stupid’ questions). Would we treat our children like they are idiots because they don’t know better? I hope not.
We must BE the change we want to see.
Posted 28 Jul 2008 at 11:05 pm ¶
lxy wrote:
The funniest thing to do is to flip the script anytime some ignorant White person asks these questions.
Just ask them back, “Where’re YOU from?”
If they give some answer like “California,” just ask them again, “No, I mean where are you and your ancestors originally from.”
Finally, start talking to this Euro-American in some sort of European language.
You can “Guten Tag” the hell out of them as they beat a hasty retreat.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 12:16 am ¶
M wrote:
While the man should have gotten the hint and stopped talking with you, I will say that many older people do discuss each others ancestry. Any time my grandparents met anyone they had to find out where they were from and when they talked about them to family they’d say things like “his people were from Hungary” or such. It was probably due to the fact that they were first generation Americans and so were a pretty high percentage of others in their area and it was interesting to them how everyone got here. And yes, they did say that we should all visit the country of our ancestors some day. They were proud to be American but also proud of their ancestry and just assumed everyone else was, too. I know this man wasn’t my grandpa, but if it were him, the conversation would have been the same regardless of your skin color. I’m not saying this man would have been the same way and I’m not making excuses for him, I’m just pointing out that not everyone has racist intentions when talking about ancestry. Sometimes it’s just an ancestry thing.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 7:00 am ¶
Sang-Shil Kim wrote:
This question is one that I’ve seen a lot of Korean adoptees wrestle with as well — do we “need” to go to Korea because that is where we were born and where “our people” supposedly are, even though we we were adopted to the U.S./Canada/Sweden etc. at very young ages? Obviously many adoptees *do* want to go to Korea, and quite a few move back there permanently.
But there are also other adoptees who have no desire to visit Korea, and even feel guilty because they think they “should” want to. I think that it can be very difficult to discern what we really want for ourselves, separate from all of the messages we get about what we “should” and “shouldn’t” want.
And by the way, I don’t think that you’re getting “worked up” over this at all. As you know, it’s difficult for white people to understand how frustrating these incidents are, how often they happen, and what they really mean.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 8:18 am ¶
Jae Ran wrote:
A few quick notes:
to Kes: Going to China is not necessarily going to be the place where the people there will “consider her their own.” Yes, the author will be in the racial majority there, but not knowing the language or the socio-cultural aspects, it is very likely she’ll get targeted in the opposite way for looking like, but not acting like, “one of them.” As Natalie pointed out, there is no guarantee she’ll be embraced just because she is ethnically Chinese.
(but I still think you would find a lot of personal meaning in going!)
CJ’s Daddy - the idea that for White Americans there “is no where to go back to” comment just perpetuates the stereotype that America = White. The first nations peoples of America in my opinion are the only ones who can say they have no where to go “back” to. White Americans were all once foreigners here.
Elizabeth - I see the difference is that as the parent who made the choice to have your family configuration, kids do not. So, while I think it’s great that you educate and choose to respond how you do. Children (and those of us like the author) should NOT have to be the world’s educator for diversity.
I have experienced the author’s situation more times than I can count, and it bristles me to no end to be told that the person asking the questions and making the assumptions is well meaning and harmless.
As long as people think it’s “harmless” we will never get past the racial “othering” that occurs to us, and we will never get to the level of true racial equity in our society.
Our children - whether now or in the future as adults - should NOT have to carry on the burden of re-educating “well meaning and harmless” White people.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 8:19 am ¶
Jennifer wrote:
Hi everyone,
Thanks for such engaging comments and discussion. I originally wrote this post a year ago on my blog “Mixed Race America” and wanted to clarify a few things that weren’t in my original post and to answer a few observations/speculations that people have thrown out here.
1) I have actually been to China. Hong Kong specifically, with a one-day trip into Guangzhou (we went to the zoo and a restaurant and saw Shen Zhen). It was in 1999 for Chinese New Years and it was AMAZING. I had always wanted to go to Hong Kong–I’m no sure that my desire was based on ethnicity or just travelust, but I have always wanted to spend Chinese New years in a country that really believed in celebrating the lunar new year the way it was mean to (2 week holiday of MAJOR significance–Christmas, Thanksgiving, Fourth of July, Mother/father’s day, Memorial day all rolled into 2 weeks).
Did I find acceptance? Was this a homecoming for me? Sadly, no. My mother’s family is a generation removed from Hong Kong (my mother, as I alluded above was born and raised in Jamaica and identifies more strongly as Jamaican than Chinese) and my fathers family is from Szechuan (where the earthquakes hit). And I was treated, for the most part, like a traitor. This was probably exacerbated by my white American partner–I was scolded in public for being with a white American, for not speaking Cantonese, for not knowing Chinese customs, and for not being a “good” Chinese person.
I was shocked. I mean, it’s not like I thought I was going to be embraced with open arms, but the number of times (at least a dozen) that people in restaurants, at shops, on public transportation, chose to scold me and tell me I was a bad Chinese person was really surprising. Again, I can’t discount how this was exacerbated by my white American partner, but still, it wasn’t nice, and to be frank, it left me with conflicted feelings about the trip (although I was thrilled to have gone and would like to return).
So my question: Do I need to travel to China, was really entirely rhetorical and somewhat existential–related to the questions we ask of others and ourselves related to our “loyalty” and our “authenticity.”
And this incident, as many of you have already noted, happens all too often for people of color, and for mixed-race families. And it’s exhausting. On the one hand, I know this many was being well intentioned. On the other hand, I wanted to scream at him and tell him how rude he was and show him that his Orientalizing of me felt sexist and racist (and yes, it was Orientalizing because the guy was also kind of a letch. I didn’t go into that in the original post, but there was a fair amount of eying me up and down that was going on and I seemed to have an invisible sign taped to my chest because the man’s eyes kept traveling to that area rather than making eye contact with me).
It’s all complicated. My interaction with him was minor in the scheme of things. And potentially I could have “educated” him or called him out or turned the tables or just simply noted his Orientalizing.
But here’s the thing: I just wanted to make 5 photocopies. I had other errands to run. I work on issues of race for my professional and teaching life. And there are days when I don’t want to teach others about their internalized racism and othering. There are days when I get tired, and that was one of those days.
Which is actually why I think we need more white allies and more people willing to talk about these race issues and to understand them. I don’t think this guy was evil or bad or that he was more racist than the average person. But I also think that we all have issues regarding race/racism that we need to work through (myself included)–which is why I appreciate ARP and everyone who shared their two cents. And maybe next time this happens (since there’s always a next time–just a month ago I was once again asked if I was from Hawaii–honestly, if you saw my photo, I look like a pretty average Chinese American/East Asian American woman) I’ll have more energy to handle the situation with humor and also to educate. But I think what I feel resentful of, is I hate having to make that choice in the moment. Because it takes a lot out of me.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 10:51 am ¶
Gillian wrote:
Like others here, especially mixed race whose ethnic heritage is not immediately obvious, I have experienced these “where are you from?” conversations so often that I have come to expect them. Which is not to say that I take them in my stride.
I feel the need to go to Malaysia, where my mother was from and my parents met, for that roots thing and getting in touch with my family there. But I also got that same sense when I visited Guangzhou in China, as my great-grandfather emigrated from that city.
I went to China for a completely different reason, linked to the future rather than to the past, but I have to say that it was an amazing experience. I went prepared to have the same conversations as in the west, and had prepared how to say what my origins are in both Mandarin and Cantonese.
But I didn’t need it. Certainly not everyone saw me as Chinese, but some people did (as long as I wasn’t moving around) and addressed me in Mandarin and then apologised when I said I was sorry, I didn’t understand (also in Mandarin). That feeling of (almost) blending in was just so amazing.
I didn’t expect to feel accepted (not being used to it), and so for those who didn’t accept me, it wasn’t a big deal - after all, I was in a foreign country. But I would recommend to anyone to go to a place where you can have that experience of fitting in, however superficially - it is truly balm for the soul.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 11:17 am ¶
Elizabeth wrote:
Jae Ran,
What I am saying is you don’t really have a choice. Whether you like it or not, you represent diversity in this country. If you want to be angry about it and respond to others in a hostile way, it will create a greater divide and continued fear of minorities.
I am not saying that I am always happy and open in my responses, but I try to be.
My last name is Hebrew, which means that every single time someone reads my name on a check or credit card slip or in a class, etc. I am asked, “where are you from?” While it is not the same as standing out by having brown skin or almond eyes, experience has shown me that there really is no way to escape it.
As a mom and without the option of passing on my white privilege my animal instincts to protect my children from these comments and questions are fierce. There is a whole other set of emotions and questions people seem to feel they are able to ask, perhaps because I appear white.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 12:12 pm ¶
orlandoiam wrote:
It’s such an easy cliche to knock that man’s ignorance as white…but for us white “American’s?” who have been living in foreign countries since birth, or decades upon decades, and raising our children in a different country where we do assume foreign citizenship. Well, we’re exposed to the same thing, the same ignorance from our Asian friends. I’ll never be considered part of their country and they’ll never consider my children part of their country due to the color of their skin (language abilities, birth rights and culture be damned…)
There’s racism round the world but at least in America some people are willing to create a dialogue about it, and question our ideas of identity. It seems to me that although harsh going, that one of the American myths is the idea that all can come, add to, and be added upon by American culture. That’s an amazing myth to have (even if it’s not a comfortable reality yet.)
It’s a shame that so many of our attempts to define our identity are done with so much anger (note the righteous imagined responses to that horrible European) — or when we are defined (perhaps ignorantly) is met with such resentment. I’m guilty of the same thing, and it grows wearisome. Find myself wanting to knock people over their head when they think I automatically identify with white people and American culture because that’s what I look like and where I’m from. But perhaps gentle questioning and dialogs are the most fruitful.
as for going to China… I guess the only question would be, are you interested?
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 12:31 pm ¶
orlandoiam wrote:
p.s.
Although it’s a burden in trying to educate him– whose job is it, if not ours?
seems to me he just has rather traditional ideas of how identity is defined. Race and nationalism. Not realizing that identity is no longer confined merely to one’s appearance or ancestral geographical borders.
technology has allowed for a whole new way for us to create our identities.
It’s interesting also, how in a lot of post colonial literature the immigrants seem to be caught between two extremes. One hanging onto their origins quite a bit. Or two, “losing” themselves in their new home, accepted or not accepted.
(obviously, that’s not just literature. here in Asia we have large communities of mainly white Westerners who separate themselves rather than immerse themselves in their new home…or we have the opposite extreme of marrying into the new country, learning the language, culture and taking it on …. and changing in unexpected ways– that’s me.)
We as not even first born generation, expect to be treated as “others” (there’s not even a myth of acceptance here)…even though it hurts as we no longer fully identify with American ideals, culture, and ideas of race.
we’re in a limbo land, so to speak.
And our children remain in limbo land. Even though they’ve embraced much more of the country than I ever can, branded by their appearance and their mama’s influence and blood, they remain different. Much like you have been in the United States.
America’s on a much faster track for change though. Maybe it’s just my distance but I really have hope for America when I remember my friendships there. Much more racial intermixing and so many more ways to look or be American.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 1:11 pm ¶
hedra wrote:
@kel, in my experience, in China you’re welcome if you act Chinese, no matter your ancestry. I’m mainly northern-European, but was quickly treated as non-Other when I shifted cultural modes and behaviors.
As for whether you should go to China? Go where you want. If you find yourself eventually pondering genealogy information, it will be far more interesting to go at that point than just going because you’re somehow ’supposed to’ go.
Our family has a branch from Sweden. Going to Sweden not entirely on the list of ‘must see’, until we started working on the genealogy stuff. So, my mom went to Sweden, and it was an amazing trip, she found relatives, she found the old farmhouse, very cool. But if asked where feels the most like home to her, after her actual home, she’d say Kenya. Kenya speaks to her, though as far as we know any African heritage is so far back we haven’t found it yet.
China speaks to me, too. As noted, there’s no heritage reason for it to do so, but the first time (of several) that I stepped off a plane in China, I felt like I was coming home. And while a good chunk of my family heritage is from a variety of places in the UK, so far nowhere I’ve been in the UK feels at all like home.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 1:12 pm ¶
CJsDaddy wrote:
Jae Ran - I agree with what you said. I hope you understood that I meant to say this is the way white American’s view America - as being white. I wasn’t saying that it’s a valid perception or a good thing at all. I was just explaining that this is why white American’s rarely talk about going back to anywhere. Sorry if my comment was incomplete.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 1:21 pm ¶
Jae Ran wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, CJs Daddy, it makes more sense now.
Overall, I think each of us has to decide how much we’re going to educate others and when we’re just going to try and get out of that conversation quickly. I still stand by the idea that we can’t just dismiss encounters as being harmless. They take a deep emotional toll on everyone who has to explain and justify their right to be here by those who would “other” us.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 2:34 pm ¶
gm wrote:
I’d like to flip the script on the where are you from?I’ve lived in a Chinese country, Taiwan and I got that question quite a bit from Chinese and a lot of rude staring too. I had a student argue me down I couldn’t be an American because I looked Mexican. I was fired from an English teaching job because my clients prefered their previous teacher who was French and spoke minimal English. I had the family I lived with tell me “a Black woman” they didn’t like Black people because they thought they were ugly. I had the mother of a Chinese friend tell me, “You looked better without the tan.” So you see it doesn’t matter where you are people have their biases and you aren’t safe from the “what box can I put you in question.” I probably have one of the thicker skins out there but it doesn’t stop me from writing some pretty mean poetry. I’d suggest you try it, it’s a great stress reducer.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 3:55 pm ¶
Robyn wrote:
I’m of European ancestry: Germany, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, and Poland mainly. While I’ve never particularly cared about my German roots (possibly because those are the ones that are farthest removed - those ancestors came to the US pre-Revolutionary War), I’ve always wanted to go to the other countries. I don’t speak any of those languages. I look Irish, which people comment on all the time, seriously. Because my ancestors were there, I do care more about the countries. This isn’t to say that EVERYONE does and should feel this way. Many people I know feel pulls to the lands of their ancestors. Sometimes that means Europe or Africa, and sometimes it means getting more in-tune with their Native American roots.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 5:53 pm ¶
Liza wrote:
To contribute another flip, I do think there is something very powerful about knowing where our ancestral heritage comes from (this is, aside from lame comments from people who like points for guessing our heritage, etc. - like in the post).
As a Filipina (born in the US), my tagalog vocabulary consists of all the swear words my cousins taught me and the ability to count from 1-10. Yup. That’s it. My Puerto Rican husband’s Spanish is basically conversational, at best.
I do, sometimes, feel very embarrassed by the fact that I know very little about the Philippines, can’t communicate in a language shared by the majority of my relatives, and certainly can’t cook any Filipino dishes that I grew up eating. I feel like I’ve completely lost a hold of my culture and am slowing adopting a very white-washed version of my Asian self. And, I’m finding more and more of my peers who are 1st or 2nd generation who have lost almost all ties to their heritage.
I’m learning more about the homeland of my parents, but it’s out of desire to know more about myself and my people’s history. Growing up a predominantly white educational system, my idea of “Asian” was from the teachings of war (from, of course, a U.S. point of view), exoticism, and “other.”
So, I’m planning on sending my children to a local cultural school - one that teaches kids cultural dances of the Philippines, some of the language and the history of our people.
I do think it’s important (no matter what your ancestry) to learn about the history of your people — both from the prospective of your people and from those who were impacted by your people.
Growing up with a very Euro-focused history, I realize how much I missed out on … and hoping to catch up on some of it over the past few years.
Posted 29 Jul 2008 at 9:24 pm ¶
lxy wrote:
A few of the counter-arguments here are predictably defensive in tone and are employing the standard “Well, they’re prejudiced too!” rhetoric that one often hears when (European) Americans complain about so-called “reverse racism.”
This is more about deflecting blame from oneself or America than it is about questioning stereotypes.
Posted 30 Jul 2008 at 1:25 am ¶
atlasien wrote:
That’s classic… the “Asians are racist too!” argument. I’m going to start calling it the “reductio ad Genghis Khan”.
Jennifer, I felt much more comfortable traveling in China than I did in Japan. In China I clearly didn’t belong. The way I was treated was kind of weird… a lot of people thought I was a Uighur. In Japan, I feel much more uncomfortable, because I’m also viewed as different, but there’s an internal expectation to belong.
There’s really no place in the world I can go and have people assume I belong there. In Hawaii, there are people that look like me, but as soon as I open my mouth, it’s obvious I’m not one of them.
Posted 30 Jul 2008 at 7:15 am ¶
Jennifer wrote:
Atlasien,
I think that expectation to belong (and my secret if somewhat naive hope that I would belong and feel “at home”) is really powerful — which is why it can be so disappointing. I’ve never spent time in any other “Asian” country, but I do wonder what my experiences would be like if I were in Japan or Korea or The Phillipines (I’ve been mistaken, sometimes by fellow Asian Americans, to be from each of these countries).
Also, I’m not sure if you were directing your comment about “Asians are racist too” argument to me (#18 comment above) but I want to clarify that I was not trying to argue that people in Hong Kong are racist and I was not trying to portray people from China or Asia as racist. That they are is probably true because I’m of the belief that all of us from every country/culture have issues of race and racism that we haven’t dealt with adequately.
Anyway, I just wanted to clarify because I also find that line of argumentation unhelpful and deflects the real issue of racism. The line of argument that goes: “Well I’m not “Chinese” and therefore when I was in China I experienced all this racism so it just shows that racism in the U.S. is not an a-typical phenonmenon.” I’m sure the Weigars in China would have something to say about Chinese racism, as would Tibetans and Taiwanese. And in the U.S. we certainly have A LOT to say because race as a tool of power was so influential in founding “America” (transatlantic slave trade, taking lands from indigenous populations, U.S. colonialism and exploited labor based on racial difference).
I think what I was trying to do was to explain that being Chinese American in Hong Kong/China did not allow me to blend in or feel “at home” easily or at all. There were times when I did feel … something … a connection, a better understanding of certain cultural practices I had grown up with. And certainly an appreciation for my ethnic heritage. And there is something very powerful when you can blend into a crowd and not feel like you are a minority.
But my white partner really did make me stand out (and I’m not trying to blame him–we’re no longer together–I’m simply explaining what my experience was like) and I think it’s why we received a lot of scrutiny and perhaps why some people felt inclined or free to criticize me openly–because I probably activated a lot of anxiety for them about being in an inter-racial relationship or they simply wanted to be helpful (my most generous interpretation) by telling me I really should learn Cantonese and be a better Chinese person.
I’ve tried to learn mandarin twice (failed miserably, Spanish is much more intuitive for me). I’ve read some Chinese classics and I cook a mean ma pa dofu. Do these things make me authentically Chinese or not Chinese if I can or can’t do them? I think this is what I was getting at with my post and with others trying to define, for me, what my heritage should mean, which is an on-going, ever-fluctuating and flexible idea for me. While I am certain about how I feel regarding racism and anti-racism, the idea of how “Chinese” I am is one I grapple with because of being an Americanized Chinese person who grew up identifying much more strongly with Jamaican culture than Chinese culture.
Posted 30 Jul 2008 at 11:54 am ¶
atlasien wrote:
Jennifer, I was actually just agreeing with lxy about a certain usage of the “Asians are racist too” argument as a mystifying excuse. So we’re all in agreement on that point.
I get so tired of people saying “Asians are racist too” as an excuse for white racism. It would be just as insufferable the other way around… if a person in an Asian country deflected racism accusations by saying “but those white people are racist too!”
Posted 30 Jul 2008 at 1:09 pm ¶
gm wrote:
Jennifer I don’t think Atlasien was responding to you, I think it was me. In no way was I trying to trivialize your feelings by reinterating what happened to me in Taiwan. I didn’t even equate those incidents to racism, more to ignorance. Their statements were probably more of a response to America’s racist stereotype imagery of Black Americans. I empathize with you feeling a connection to a culture that doesn’t always accept you because of how you look whether it be white America because you appear Asian or Chinese people because you don’t act Chinese. There is a reason the word identity begins with an I. It starts with you. The “I” gets to choose first. Everything else is secondary.
Posted 30 Jul 2008 at 1:12 pm ¶
Mogs wrote:
Well, I don’t think you NEED to go to China- you certainly have no obligations, to yourself or anyone else, to go there. But I recently visited the country where many of my ancestors are from, and it was a great experience. I was really surprised by the deep response that just being there provoked in me. Even though I have very little cultural connection to this country, since my family has been American for more than four generations, as I was seeing the land and learning about the history, it all just seemed more… intense, or maybe alive is a better word, to me, knowing that some of my ancestors had been a part of it. I don’t know how coherent this comment is, but all I’m saying is, if you choose to go visit China you might be surprised at how much that experience affects you- perhaps more so than travel to some other country, even if you don’t feel that you have strong ties to Chinese cultures.
Posted 30 Jul 2008 at 2:59 pm ¶
jstele wrote:
Shouldn’t this be in Racialicious? I don’t see how this is related to parenting.
Posted 01 Aug 2008 at 4:47 pm ¶
Tami Winfrey Harris wrote:
Jstele,
I think part of being an anti-racist parent is understanding larger issues related to race. You’ll notice in some of the recent threads about parenting resources, many readers suggested tools strictly centered on race discussion and not parenting. I think that is important. While this blog will remain focused on mostly parenting content, I hope you will indulge me on some posts that address issues that our children may someday face.
Posted 01 Aug 2008 at 4:53 pm ¶
Robert wrote:
You don’t need to travel anywhere, go where you want to go, only to places that interest you. The old man was wrong saying you “need” to go. Who know’s what his motiviation was.
After reading all the other comments I thought, this is a board full of racist, they think all white people are the same, and that only white people can be racist.
I wish the poster hadn’t said, “I should also add, though I’m sure you can guess, that this older man is white.” You’re telling me I should guess his color based on the conversation as if a 70 year old with darker skin wouldn’t have asked any of those questions.
And the person that wrote, “I’m sure that guy’s ancestors were from Europe somewhere - do you think he feels the need to visit that/those coutries because he has an ethinic connection?” You’re guessing his ancestry based on his skin color, same thing he did, duh. And if he knew they were from Europe, maybe he did visit and it moved him, and that’s why he made the suggestion. We don’t know, we didn’t get to interrogate him.
This comment, “Where are HIS people from and why doesn’t he speak HIS ancestral language?” Assumptions. For all you know he was 100% Polish and speaks it fluently.
“but his continued questioning refused you a place as fully American. ” It wasn’t like he was telling her to move, in fact when she answered ““I’m from the United States of America.”” he was flustered and said, “No, I know that…” It was just an old man, who knows what his point was. He probably just wanted to have a chat and didn’t know what he was up against. We don’t even know if he was 70, could’ve been 80, could’ve been at Pearl Harbor for all we know.
“White American’s see America as a white country, so there’s really know where for us to go back to and visit” Assuming all white people think and act the same, shame on you, and of course there are places for “white people” to visit.
“The funniest thing to do is to flip the script anytime some ignorant White person asks these questions” I don’t do it for fun or because I think they’re ignorant. But instead of yelling racist on a board I will flip the questions and usually get a nice conversation about genealogy and immigration out of it, especially from lonely old men, regardless of how they look.
I’m teaching my kids that the minute someone makes any assumptions about the past, about the future, about the character, about anything, based on the way someone looks, that’s racism. Since they can’t make assumptions, they are allowed to ask questions, hopefully they will ask someone that will feed their young minds and not assume they have racist parents.
Posted 04 Aug 2008 at 11:51 am ¶
Jennifer wrote:
Robert (#37),
This is the author of the post and I’m also an author of a blog called Mixed Race America.
I don’t want to answer for the others you quote in your comment, but I did want to address the wish you addressed specifically to me at the very beginning and then the last bit you write about racism.
1) “I wish the poster hadn’t said, “I should also add, though I’m sure you can guess, that this older man is white.” You’re telling me I should guess his color based on the conversation as if a 70 year old with darker skin wouldn’t have asked any of those questions.”
I suppose what you take issue with is the word “guess.” First of all, I stand behind that word, because in my experiences dealing with this type of scenario, 90% of these types of question come from white Americans–and of that 90%, I’d say about 75% come from men.
If you look at my comment above (#18) you will see that I tried to flesh out the encounter more fully and noted a particular sexual/gendered element that I also find in about 75% of questions I get that come from white men who start to ask me “where I’m from.” It’s sexual orientalism.
So when I wrote that people could “guess” that my male interrogator was white, I was more than implying that this line of questioning, and form of sexual orientalism (which is a form of racism) came predominantly from white Americans, because that has been my experirence (and quite frankly, the experience of friends of color who have experienced similar encounters).
Of course other people have asked similar questions of me–but when it’s another Asian American person, I’m assuming they are trying to make a connection with me–to figure out if we have a shared ethnic ancestry. If a person of color, they may, indeed, also be orientalizing and “othering” me, but I feel like it’s easier for me to have a conversation with them about how I’m uncomfortable with this line of questioning because chances are, they’ve also experienced this type of “othering.” With white Americans, it’s been my experience that when I’ve challenged their assumptions about my nationality (American) or their overly inquistive ideas about how authentically Chinese I should be, they react defensively.
#2) Which brings me to your point about racism. I am very glad that you are teaching your chidlren not to be racist. But my definition of racism and yours sounds like they are different. In my definition, racism is an institutional form of oppression, one codified into law and practiced for over three centuries in this country by people from European ancestry against those who did not have European ancestry. I’m not saying that Asian people can’t be bigoted or Latinos can’t be prejudiced and I’m not even saying that people of color don’t say racist things. But in terms of the power in this country, by and large it still resides in white male hands. Which means that while it may be invasive for someone to ask a white American where they are from and to make stereotypes and while the commenters on this board may have made stereotypes about the white older man I described, I don’t think their comments were racist because they weren’t part of this power structure and centuries of history that I’m talking about.
White privilege–that’s perhaps one thing to talk to your chilldren about if you want to talk to them about racism, and Peggy McIntosh has a great essay called “Unpacking the Knapsack of White Privilege.” Glad you are reading this blog–thanks for the discussion!
Posted 05 Aug 2008 at 5:16 pm ¶
Erika Shira wrote:
Yes, there was definitely racial bias there. I doubt this person asks random white Americans where “your people” are from. Why do people think this is an acceptable question to ask of strangers who are colors other than pink? Almost all of us in this country are immigrants.
Posted 12 Aug 2008 at 9:53 am ¶
Robert wrote:
Let’s talk about the example set as far as parenting goes. “Of course other people have asked similar questions of me–but when it’s another Asian American person, I’m assuming they are trying to make a connection with me–to figure out if we have a shared ethnic ancestry.” Did you treat him differently because of your experiences with people of his skin color? You might have given different answers to start with, but I think eventually his individual traits supported your experiences. What I hope is that my kids don’t get the “oh no, another white guy” attitude. Because of a lack of experience with some ethnicities in my children’s short life spans they have to see in me the example of not reacting to a color, even though they’ve only seen that color under curtain circumstances. They have to see that the 90% they experience doesn’t equal what they will experience in their lifetime and that they can’t assume any individual would fit a mold based on their color. Do they see white Americans treat us differently, sure, but they can’t perpetuate that by making villains of all white Americans.
Posted 13 Aug 2008 at 12:48 pm ¶
The Nerd wrote:
Wow, that sucks! I don’t know why people feel obligated in their minds to compartmentalize others. I have been asked such invasive questions such as why I’m married (for sexual convenience - haha), why I had a child (because I felt like it), how long my husband was in the military (no, dip wads, I was the one in the military - women can join too), and what church I go to (because good people couldn’t possibly not believe in a god!).
It occurs to me that the fellow in the story may have been hitting on you. If so, he was most definitely shot down. I just wonder if he realized that at any point in the conversation.
Posted 21 Aug 2008 at 10:57 am ¶