Spare the rod, get your Black Card taken

by ARP columnist Deesha Philyaw

A few years ago, I wrote the following column at LiteraryMama.  I did so in hopes of sparking constructive dialogue.  Instead, crickets chirped, mostly.  Well, ARP readers aren’t known to hold their tongues, so I’m reprinting here in hopes of getting that dialogue going.

A black comedian riffs on the subject of parenthood on BET’s late-night laughfest, ComicView:

“You wanna know the difference between black parents and white parents?” he begins. “In public, white kids…embarrass they parents. Black parents…”

The 99% black audience chuckles with anticipation.

“… embarrass they kids.”

While the audience erupts with knowing laughter, the comedian demonstrates the stereotypical white child screaming, “Mother, I hate you!” at the permissive white mother; versus the loud, no-nonsense way the stereotypical black mother corrals her kids with threats (”Girl, I’ll knock you into next week”) and a ready backhand (or shoe).

The comedian offered this as a universal truth: Black parents don’t play. Black parents don’t believe in “time out.” Black parents spank their kids.

Except some of us don’t.

That’s it. That’s my dirty little secret. I’m a black mother who doesn’t spank her kids.

But don’t you understand? For as long as black folks have been in this country, we have had to keep our kids in line, by any means necessary. For us, it was a matter of life and death.

“Was” being the operative word here. Gone are the days when whining and complaining or disobedience could get a child’s entire escaping family captured, sent back to the plantation, whipped, hobbled, or killed. Gone are the days when whistling at a white woman (or even being falsely accused of it) would get a 14-year-old black boy lynched and his unrepentant murderers found not guilty, and then bragging about the crime in a national magazine. (See Till, Emmett.)

Now you’ll never hear me say that black folks have completely overcome. Racism and discrimination may no longer wear white sheets, or wield fire hoses and dogs, but they are still alive and kicking. But in 2006, I’ll be damned if “know your place,” and “don’t piss off white folks” are among the life lessons I instill in my daughters, much less spank them to drive the message home.

That said, the reality is that black children are often scrutinized more closely than white children. A black kindergarten boy is labeled “unruly, threatening” by his teacher. Meanwhile, his white counterpart is “spirited, rambunctious.” Baggy jeans, hoodies, and “bling-bling” are “gangsta” attire when wore by black kids; when white kids wear them, it’s stylish rebellion. Black adults are also held to higher standards. Many feel compelled to work twice as hard as their white counterparts just to make the same progress professionally. And then there are those “helpful” sales clerks trailing behind us in stores because we might try and steal something. Guilty until proven innocent.

So, as the conventional wisdom goes, we — and our children — must be on our best behavior. But even accepting this reality, I don’t believe that spanking is necessary or necessarily effective.

These kids nowadays? They call 9-1-1 or Child Protective Services on a parent who tries to spank them. That’s why so many of them end up in jail, on drugs, or can’t keep a job.

I seriously doubt black kids are making such calls en masse. To blame criminal behavior and unemployment on parents not spanking is illogical as well as inaccurate. It also gives a free pass to the systemic injustices and neglect that contribute to what ails us a community.

“But aren’t you afraid she’ll end up in prison?”

Contrary to the ComicView comedian’s riff, “to spank or not to spank” does not fall neatly along color lines . The above is a direct quote from a friend, Sue (not her real name), who is white. Sue’s oldest child is the same age as Taylor. We bonded as first-time moms, and became friends in spite of our different parenting styles, including my decision not to spank Taylor. Sue asked what I thought about “Spare the rod, spoil the child,” which many consider a biblical mandate to spank. I shared Christian attachment parenting guru Dr. William Sears’ observation that the “rod” is akin to a shepherd’s staff, which is used to prod and guide sheep for their protection, not to hit them. But Sue remained skeptical.

When Taylor and Sue’s child were both eighteen months old, Sue said to me, “They’re into everything at this age! Surely you’ve spanked her by now.” I hadn’t, and said so.

“But aren’t you afraid she’ll end up in prison?”

“No…”

“Well, if she doesn’t learn to obey you, then she won’t learn to obey laws…”

“And end up in prison? You know, I bet that a lot of people sitting in prison right now were spanked as kids. I’m not saying that they are in prison because they were spanked, but clearly spanking is not an effective crime deterrent. If Taylor ended up in prison, I would wonder where I went wrong as a parent, but I wouldn’t question my decision not to spank.”

I pointed out to Sue that she wrongly equated lack of spanking in our family with lack of discipline. I don’t spank, but I’m not a permissive parent either. In our family, there are age-appropriate boundaries, rules, consequences, and most importantly, consistency. And yet, I don’t subscribe to any formula for parenting success. No one is guaranteed law-abiding offspring, whether you spank or not.

In settings where my children are the only ones present who have never been spanked, they have behaved as well if not better than the other children. They also have their Moments, as all kids do, spanked or not. So if I’m going to get the same results spanking as not, why spank? Other than self-defense or to protect others, hitting another person just doesn’t feel right to me.

As long as you don’t spank out of anger, it’s fine.

Well, then maybe I am a spanker after all. I’m just not a practicing spanker because the only time I ever get the urge to spank my kids is when I’m angry.

But weren’t you spanked as a child? And didn’t you turn out just fine?

Fine? I turned out fabulous! But so have plenty of people who were never spanked.

Some friends and I get downright nostalgic at times, laughing about “whuppings” past, about that bygone era when grandmothers sent you out to the backyard to get your own switch (a tiny, thin branch stripped of its leaves) for her to keep handy for when you misbehaved.

I don’t fault my mother or grandmother for spanking me, and I don’t challenge parents I know for choosing spanking as a form of discipline. When questioned, I explain that it’s simply not an option with my kids. I have been criticized by some friends and family members for this decision, accused of negligent parenting or the dreaded “acting like white folks.” Black people I don’t even know look at me like I’m Sistah from Another Planet when I utter a firm “no” to my hysterical two-year-old and discipline her in public without spanking.

Have my kids ever embarrassed me in public? On occasion, but fortunately, the goal of my parenting is not to save face. It is to raise two confident, compassionate, productive, socially-conscious — and yes, law-abiding — young women. So maybe my parenting style is not the stuff comedian’s punch-lines are made of, but it works for me and mine.

Deesha Philyaw is a freelance writer who has written for Essence Magazine, Wondertime Magazine (a Disney publication), and The Washington Post. Deesha holds a B.A. in economics from Yale University and a Master’s degree in teaching. In her pre-mommy, pre-writing life, she was a management consultant, briefly, and then an elementary school teacher. A native of Jacksonville, Florida, Deesha currently lives in Pittsburgh with her two daughters.

Image courtesty of Djeems.

 

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Comments

  1. DWS wrote:

    If you can find other ways to get your point across I personally do not see the need to spank. I guess the key word is “if.”

    Our adoption agency made it clear they do not advocate spanking and were very helpful in identifying ways to manage behavior.

    I was spanked on occasion as a child, but I found “the look” my mother gave me frightening enough most of the time. I use it often. LOL

  2. shirky wrote:

    appreciate this article. I don’t spank (I mean, I wouldn’t–my kid’s too young to be at that point anyway). When people hear that we signed multiple agreements against corporal punishment before our adoption was final they are quite shocked. But I really don’t see it working well for me. Or him.

  3. Kandee wrote:

    I agree. My philosophy is that their boss or teacher or colleagues won’t hit them when they do something wrong, so I need to teach them how to follow instructions, be autonomous, have a sense of responsibility, and resolve conflict non-violently. That’s the world they will be living in.

    When I express to people the history of black culture holding spanking so dear, and that we are no longer in danger, they start to see what I’m saying. Many of them can’t change their beliefs overnight, but I’ve seen some deep contemplation, and for that I am glad.

    I’m trying to create comfort in my home and providing them with guidelines and predictable consequences allows me to do that.

  4. deesha wrote:

    DWS:

    LOL, The Look deserves its own post! I employ it quite frequently around here.

  5. Jonzee wrote:

    Its interesting. My brother was spanked. And I was not. I don’t know if my parents got tired when we got older or what.

    Instead, they used the old “remove a privelage” technique. It worked for the most part.

    But my brother? He got spanked. I don’t think it was very effective–but neither was the ‘remove a privelage’ technique.

    I doubt I will spank my children either. It seems my stern voice and reiteration of consequences and follow through seems to work–of course that is just with my ill-behaved nieces and the little bad kid on the block who seems to listen to me.

    (P.S. Though no spanking my mom used the ‘back of arm’ pinch (no one could see it, but I got the point quickly)

  6. Chookooloonks wrote:

    Great post, Deesha. I don’t spank my 4-year-old, but you can better believe I’ve embarrassed her in public (though no time in recent years). In our house, we have the naughty corner — as well as in restaurants, bookstores, or wherever we happen to be at the moment. As I said, it’s been years, but I remember 2 instances in the past when she was about two years old that she was acting up in a restaurant, so I took her outside, and found a “naughty corner” away from the patrons to make her stand in for two minutes.

    Nowadays, she rarely has to go to the naughty corner, whether we’re at home or not. But if we’re ever out in public and she threatens to act out, all I have to say, in a soft voice, is “Hmm. That looks like a great naughty corner right over there …” and girlie straightens right up. As a result, I have one of the best-behaved four-year-olds I know — all without spanking.

    Turning in my black card,

    K.

  7. chicagomama wrote:

    I spank on occasion. Most times, my children react quite quickly to “The Look”.

    However, in some ways - while this post is about spanking - I think the larger issue you bring to the forefront is not whether you spank or not (or whether anyone else spanks) but how others perceive your actions as a parent, and where people perceive the boundaries between observing someone else’s parenting and feeling compelled to intervene (for their own good, of course).

    Quite frankly, I think we need to get a little old fashioned in our approach, and mind our own business when it comes to how others discipline their children. If our children are well behaved - yay! go us! And if you catch us on a day when our children are rather less well behaved, well, perhaps just realizing that this could be a bad day and not an indictment of our parenting on the whole of it. We all are doing the best we can, and most of us (like 99% probably) are doing what we know works for our children and our family. I may not like how another person raises their children - but hey, they might not like how I am doing it either. I need to respect their rights as a parent and family just as much as I want my own respected.

    And I really wish that people would stop throwing around ridiculous statements like “Aren’t you afraid your child will go to jail as an adult if you aren’t able to control their every action as a child?” Seriously? Why would anyone go there?

  8. BCmomtobe wrote:

    I will be signing one of those no spanking agreements, that shirky mentioned when I get my kids. Considering how my children will be coming to me from the foster care system, I am 100% on board. I’ve also kept students in line for 13 years, so I know that spanking is not always necessary.

    I know this post is about race and spanking, but I just thought I’d share this. In Canada, the senate is pushing a bill to outlaw spanking. I don’t agree with actually outlawing it, even though I won’t use it myself. This is leading me to ponder the repercussions of race and spanking here in Canada. I do know Black people from the east coast who have told me that spanking, with a belt even was part of their upbringing.

  9. Liana wrote:

    I discussed this very topic once on Black-Ivy and was treated like a heretic and race traitor. Perhaps you should post there and see what response you get.

    But even thought the members of the American Academy of Pediatrics could not come up with a firm anti-spanking resolution (tempers flared so hotly that the docs almost came to blows), I still believe that there are other ways to discipline that corporal ways. Yet as a black pediatrician trying to get that across to black parents, I was not very popular.

    I’m also not big on telling the kid that s/he is “bad.” S/he may have some bad behaviors but s/he is not bad.

  10. Yoli wrote:

    I am laughing here so hard over the look. My grandmother gave me the “LOOK” and it was all it took. I used to swat my children’s hand when they were younger, not hard, but yes I did it. Now that they are older, time out and taking privileges away is what works best.

    By the way, that line of black parents not being ashamed to embarrased their kids in public also pertains to Hispanic kids. My parents were not ashamed to let me have it if I acted up in public.

    Great topic thank you for posting it.

  11. julie wrote:

    “the goal of my parenting is not to save face”

    You made a big point right there. I feel that obedience is more for the parent’s sake than for the child’s, especially obedience out of fear. Spanking doesn’t teach a child how to manage her frustration/stress. I remember hours of seething in anger, hate and shame after a spanking, hours of uselessness, wasted time and energy. Shutting children down isn’t conducive to their learning or their desire to learn.

    Teachers/Care-givers don’t spank kids, yet we find ways that keep them creative and stress-free so that they are well-behaved, coherent. I know it is very different than parenting but I think that we parents can take a leaf out of the teacher’s book.

    There’s nothing like a little stress, frusturation, or excess energy to cause misbehavior. Maybe we need to cut it off at the source.

  12. Clueless WW wrote:

    One of my neighbor families is Indian, recently arrived in the US. At a small birthday party for another neighborhood child, the mother asked the others of us there how we got our children to be so well-behaved. “All American children are so orderly,” she said, “Children in India, oh my, they are just so spoiled!” The American mothers — mostly white — looked at each other and burst out laughing. Has she been in a grocery store recently, we asked? How about a restaurant? Public park?

    Well-disciplined kids can result from a number of different upbringings, some including spanking and some not. Personally I don’t like to spank though I have a few times — usually if my daughter’s gotten thoroughly hysterical and needs a small butt smack to bring her back to reality and attention. But the critical factor is using SOME method of discipline. Kids like to — indeed, need to — test boundaries as they grow up. If they learn they can push those boundaries, they’ll keep doing it. If they learn they’ll get pushback, they’ll know how far they can go.

  13. deesha wrote:

    Chook wrote: “Hmm. That looks like a great naughty corner right over there …” and girlie straightens right up. As a result, I have one of the best-behaved four-year-olds I know — all without spanking.

    Turning in my black card…”

    Okay, now I’m going to have “naughty corner” running through my head all day! ;-)

    chicagomama:

    Great observations all around. Even though I made the point in the post that such nosiness isn’t limited to black folks, I do feel that some of “us” presume a level of kinship that gives the right to comment on personal matters such as discipline.

    I was in an airport once when my oldest was about 2. She was exhausted and cranky, and we were trying to get through security. Of course, she absolutely needed to be carried at that moment. So as I was gathering my carry on stuff at the end of the checkpoint, I struggled to balance her and our bags in my arms.

    Well, this black guy working security (approx. age, 21) says to me, grinning, “Put that girl down.”

    I’m not grinning. I ignore him, keep walking.

    “I said, ‘You need to put her down.’”

    As I continued walking, I overheard him and an older black woman tsk-tsking about how I needed to “put that girl down.”

    Now…I had a lot of thoughts at that moment, but among the non-profane ones was, “Would they be so free with the comments if we were white?”

  14. DWS wrote:

    Well, I am happy to see “the Look” is universal. Deesha, you are correct, it does deserve its own post.

  15. blkirish wrote:

    When I was younger my much smaller, single parent mother ruled with an iron fist. It was more effective for my two older sisters than it was for me. Now to think of it, I can only recall one “whupping” that wasn’t aimed at me.

    Looking back I know that my mother had more going on with her than just discipline. Her punching me in the chest was her attempt to establish physical dominance. I’m guessing that she felt that she was getting across to me that no matter how much bigger and stronger I grew she was capable of knocking the “stars” out of me at any time.

    It all seems sad in a way now because I can remember the theatrics I went through to give her that satisfaction. At times I would complain that I couldn’t breathe after a shot to the chest or maybe I’d stumble off balance and fall into a wall. Over time I adopted numerous tactics to convince her that I was terrified of her physically. All the while I laughed inside knowing that she didn’t come close to hurting me.

    Fast forward quite a few years and now with my own kids … if anything I threaten a lot. I use to believe that I’d employ the same disciplne that we had in my house. But honestly I can’t nor do I want to.

    I don’t want my kids to be scared of me. Fearing my dissapointment in them goes a long way without me beating on them.

    However … I have spanked them in the past and I will never say that I won’t ever again. But that has been an absolute last resort after the talking, the looks and the pleading.

    But never out of anger.

  16. Lisa (Blah Blah) wrote:

    Hmm…I work at a children’s social services agency. One of the populations we work with is incarcerated youth, and one of the stats we quote to the public is that with children who experience corporal punishment - which admittedly, can range from spanking to out-and-out abuse - they are 59% more likely to be arrested as a juvenile, 28% more likely to be arrested as an adult, and 30% more likely to commit violent crimes in their lifetime.

    Both sides of the family (mine and my husband’s) are African-American, and yes, both hit their kids. As a very small child, I would get a quick swat or smack from my mom or grandmother. By the time I was 5 or 6, I didn’t need a swat. The Look (which should be trademarked!) was enough.

    When I had my first child, I pretty much followed the precedent of my family. My daughter is now 5 and, after very occasional swats from me in her younger years, will fall into line with a quick talking-to and if all else fails, a timeout. My husband, whose family is much more likely to “whup” kids, is still more likely to give her several warnings and then a swat. I don’t condone this at all, and I wish I hadn’t so blindly followed my own family pattern. I can’t remember the last time I raised a hand to her, but I am now firmly “anti-swat.” As far as my husband goes, I am trying very carefully to get him to realize that things work a lot more smoothly when he treats his child respectfully. This doesn’t mean we let her run our house. It just means she is a human being and we can’t lose sight of that while disciplining her. It seems too often that I would try and try to be patient when she was being difficult, and just reach my breaking point and swat her out of frustration. It did not help the situation at all, and certainly did not make me feel better.

    At any rate, I am now pregnant with my second, and really committed to never raising a hand to her.

    P.S. With my first, my sister-in-law told me so often while I was pregnant that kids need smacking that I finally said to her, “It seems like you are just waiting for this child to be born so you can smack her! Why are you so invested in me hitting my child?” I think that kind of woke her up!

  17. Julia wrote:

    “Now…I had a lot of thoughts at that moment, but among the non-profane ones was, “Would they be so free with the comments if we were white?””

    As a white parent of a white toddler, I’d hazard a guess that yes, they might. Strangers do offer unsolicited “advice” or tell me how I should handle my child. Perhaps I don’t hear as much of it as a parent of color might, but it definitely happens. Kids and parenting seem to be fair game for comments, and everyone thinks they know best, even when all they see is a snapshot in time and don’t know the family or the child and what works for them.

  18. Clueless WW wrote:

    @deesha — the intrusiveness of strangers into parenting matters is NOT limited by race. I’ve had all sorts of “advice” given, both politely and not, by everybody.

    I once had an older black woman yell at me that my six-month-old wasn’t wearing socks — while in her stroller, in 90+ degree heat in June, sweating like mad — and telling me she’d catch a cold. (She didn’t.)

  19. deesha wrote:

    Hey, Liana:

    No, thanks. You are a braver soul than me, lol!

    I’m surprised…I assumed there would have been a greater diversity of opinion on Black Ivy.

  20. deesha wrote:

    Lisa Blah Blah wrote:
    “P.S. With my first, my sister-in-law told me so often while I was pregnant that kids need smacking that I finally said to her, “It seems like you are just waiting for this child to be born so you can smack her! Why are you so invested in me hitting my child?” I think that kind of woke her up!”

    I got that too! I’ve had relatives speak with glee about getting my kids to their houses alone so that they can spank them on GP. As if a kid’s life just isn’t complete until they’ve been spanked! What’s up with that???

    Clueless and Julia: I knew unsolicited parenting advice was universal, but I guess some comments I’ve received just feel so…familiar, too familiar. But it’s good to put my airport experience into the context of your perspectives.

    I’m LOL about the socks on the baby in the heat. One of the stereotypes I grew up hearing about white people is that they never got cold (i.e., shorts in the winter time, swimming in frigid waters, etc.). As I’ve gotten older, I think–if we are going to trade in stereotypes–that it’s the other way around: Black folks (of a certain age) are always cold, or dreading you catching a cold! I realized that I was hysterical about my kids going out into the elements unless they were bundled up like the little brother in the movie “A Christmas Story.” My kids are never cold and HATE to be bundled. Finally, I stopped and asked myself why it was such a big deal. Turns out, I bundled them like that because my mother and grandmother bundled me and were terrified that I would catch a cold.

    But guess what? We all caught/catch colds anyway, lol!

    So now I’m much more relaxed about it when my kids rip off hats and gloves.

    (But I can’t stop asking them, “Aren’t you cold??”)

    Remember the old adage: A sweater is something you wear when your mother is cold.

  21. BCmomtobe wrote:

    This may be off topic somewhat, but all this talk of spanking reminds me of something my grandfather used to say. He was right from Germany, and used to say that children’s misbehaviour was a result of their brains falling from their heads down to their back sides. Spanking was necessary to put the brain back into the head, so the children could behave. We thought he was nuts, but he really was a joker and ‘full of it’. Imagine trying that one on at an AAP conference.

    People have mentioned the intrusiveness of the Minders of Everyone’s Business regarding discipline. Perhaps the all powerful Look might work with them.

  22. Gunfighter wrote:

    I have never spanked my children. I’ve never needed to. “The Look” is enough to freeze them solid.

  23. blowthetrumpet wrote:

    http://blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com

    Hello there!

    Thank you for this piece.

    I think it is completely outrageous the way I hear some black children addressing their children:

    “Get your behind over here NOW!”
    And meanwhile the child has stepped about six steps away.

    “You better shut up!”
    I don’t care how many times a child has whined or cried, THAT is completely disrespectful.

    I have seen black parents roughly handle their children - snatching their little arms and grabbing them roughly. It breaks my heart.

    All white parents aren’t stellar either but my loving eyes are on MY OWN people when I am out and about and that is why I notice black people more often.

    Some black parents spank their children because they are ENCOURAGED to by their own parents and their family members.

    It is amazing that the white mother mentioned PRISON in relation to your child…wondering if she would have even said that to another white parent at a playdate…probably NOT.

    Thanks for this post!

    Peace, blessings and DUNAMIS!
    Lisa

  24. Fat Lady wrote:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you for writing this. I have had more conversations than I can count defending my decision not to spank to other Black parents. I often feel like I am the only Black parent in the whole country who doesn’t spank her children.

    In fact, in many ways, it often seems to me that spanking is the one universal amongst Black parents. I have friends from all different kinds of backgrounds, socio-economic status, religions, who even adhere to various kinds of parenting styles. But ALL of them spank their kids.

    So, invariably, with almost all my friends, I’ve had that conversation about how I don’t spank. And they all look at me like I’m crazy. And there’s always the, “But we were spanked and look how well we turned out,” line. Except, I always have a silencer to that - I wasn’t spanked.

    My parents were young and they certainly made lots of mistakes. But the one thing I think they got right is that they didn’t spank me. So I don’t understand the appeal of spanking.

    I accept the sideways looks of my friends when I tell them I don’t spank. I answer the questions and I offer them my children as examples of how kids can be well-behaved and respectful without any experience of being hit as a form of discipline.

    Like you, I believe that too many people associate spanking with discipline and not spanking with being permissive - and nothing could be further from the truth. Discipline is about teaching children how to behave. I believe that believe that setting boundaries, rules and guidelines, knowing age appropriate behavior, always following through on consequences and above all being clear and consistent about all of it - goes a lot further towards teaching children not only how to behave - but WHY to behave. I think, too often, spanking leaves the “why” out of it.

  25. gm wrote:

    I find them this conversation interesting and quite amusing. It makes me laugh, smile and remember all of the things that have been said to me over the years about my parenting style. In life, generally, I’m a pretty laid back individual consequently my parenting style is pretty much the same. Believe it or not my children are pretty well behaved sometimes they surprise with their honesty and their ability to make good choices and decisions. I love the way they try to negotiate for things they want. I like listening to their arguments and I’ve been known to acquiesce if their argument is sound. Sometimes people view this happening and think they get whatever they want. But, what is actually happening is I’m listening to their valid points, weighing my objections and coming up with a reasonable conclusion. I love their verbal repartee, I love their outgoing personality and how their not afraid to challenge adults in conversation. I think the time, money and research that I’ve put in their education is paying off. I also think their personalities are testimony that I’ve done nothing to dampen their spirit. I’m happy with the result even with all the criticism from friends, family and strangers. I don’t think I would have done anything differently.

  26. Stephanie wrote:

    I was a child in the sixties..the era of the 3″ wide belts…need I say more? LOL!

    My all time favorite was the “spanking lecture” to wit: Don’t-whap. You-whap. Ever-whap. Do-whap. That-whap. Again-whap. whap. whap!

    And lord help my bottom if he was giving me a” spanking sermon”! I couldn’t sit down for a week!

    It’s funny…now. LOL!

  27. Korolev wrote:

    Parent’s don’t have to spank their children. I don’t think it really causes any harm, but there are other ways - my parents just screamed at me, whenever I did something wrong. Well, my mother screamed at me, and my father told me, in stern tones, that if I didn’t behave correctly, I would be worthless in his eyes.

    15 years of being screamed at, and told the lesson: “behave-or-you-are-nothing-to-me” has given my plenty of neurological issues, but made me obedient and law-abiding.

    The surest method to getting a child to listen to you, is to hold them to a higher standard. Expect them to behave properly, all the time, don’t give them an inch to misbehave. Always put the fear of disappointment and shame into them - sure it’s not pleasant, but it usually works. My parents did it because they wanted me to behave in an honorable manner, and I thank them for doing that.

    And when I say that my mother screamed, I mean it - she didn’t hit me, but her manner became completely psychotic, deranged even. I don’t know if it was an act designed to scare me, but it worked - she looked crazy enough to kill, and it scared the hell out of me. Still does.

    The most effective parenting isn’t always the nicest - but in an age where “honor” and “civil obedience” aren’t given the proper respect, it is absolutely necessary.

    The prime focus should be honor and shame. If you’re child behaves badly, make them feel shamed for it. Make them understand why criminals deserve no respect. Drive it into them from the minute they begin to speak!

  28. Crystal wrote:

    To get back to the adoption agency making you sign something saying you will not spank, I don’t know that I would ever sign that. Not that I want to spank but I don’t think it is anyone else’s business. I am well aware that spanking children from abusive or inconsistent situations can be counter productive; however I am the one who will be raising the child. I will know them best and will have the info needed to make the choice about discipline. Most adoption professionals are eager and willing to tell you what does not work, but few have the guts to actually tell you what works. There are list upon list of reasons not to do time outs, spank, express disapproval or disappointment. But I have never read anything adoption related that gave constructive advice on discipline except an occasional personal post on a forum. Even the author and commenters above does not say what form of discipline they use only what they do not.

  29. deesha wrote:

    Lisa:

    It never occurred to me that the person who asked me about prison did so because we were black. Fwiw, I always got a “but you’re not like other black people” vibe from her, so maybe she wasn’t thinking black=prison. Trading one problematic racial view for another, I suppose.

    I’m enjoying reading your site, btw.

  30. BCmomtobe wrote:

    Hi blowthetrumpet, I checked out your website. I’m not sure that particular woman mentioned in deesha’s post would have made the prison comment to another white woman or not, but I have heard a lot of white people say that to each other. In my circles, quite a few people who use spanking a lot tend to exaggerate the importance of obedience. In their rationale, spanking will keep their kids from going to prison, the electric chair, getting run over by semi-trucks, living on the streets, and so on and so forth.

    I really like Fat Lady’s comment about spanking taking the ‘why’ out of it. Seeing as discipline is intended to teach children self-discipline, I think the ‘why’ of it is of the utmost importance.

  31. m wrote:

    I was thinking about this post, today, as I was holding my 6-years-old screaming and kicking son outside a store as he was having one of his tantrums and screaming to me “you dumbhead”. I’m a white mother of an African-American boy so just imaging the sight and the thoughts that ran through the customers’ minds… still I CAN NOT hit him. Believe me, if I had to I would have but it is just against my core self. So all I do is just sit with him and hold him while he calms down and remind him that whatever he does and says, I will always be there. We are stuck together. That I will help him go through this and find his peace. It’s all inside him if he could just find the wisdom to use it. I know it sounds very “peace and love” but we live in the San Francisco Bay area so I don’t stick out so much… I hope.

  32. deesha wrote:

    Crystal wrote:

    “Even the author and commenters above does not say what form of discipline they use only what they do not.”

    A few people here have mentioned time out and The Look.

    I wrote: “In our family, there are age-appropriate boundaries, rules, consequences, and most importantly, consistency.” It sounds like you are looking for specific punishments/consequences when you say “form of discipline”, but discipline is bigger than those things. It encompasses an entire perspective from which to deal with one’s child. That said, specific punishments/consequences around here include loss of privileges and time out.

  33. gm wrote:

    Are you serious Korolev or are you being sarcastic?

  34. Curlyscales wrote:

    Like many of the commenters here, I come from a pro-spanking background and decided early on not to spank my daughter. I discovered that in my case, those beatings did not instill discipline but instead filled me with fear. I was scared that anything – an innocent question, a mistake in judgment – would have both my parents coming after me so I refrained from making my voice heard. It wasn’t until I had my daughter that I realized I wasn’t going to raise her in the same fashion. In the beginning, it was tough because corporal punishment was all that I had knew but the one point that always brought me back from the edge was this – I don’t like hitting people. Period. So why in god’s name would I strike someone I love? This little phrase hits like a cup of cold water every time. So I made my words count and at times had to get creative (“if you continue to do “xyz” I will come to your school and sing/rap/do magic).

    I have a teenager now and therefore other measures of discipline come into play but the one thing I always do is keep my word. If I say I’m going to do something, you can take it to the bank.

  35. Yvette wrote:

    Late to the party–But, great post, Deesha! Glad you did not get just the sound of crickets this time. Far from it! LOL

  36. Stephanie W wrote:

    Thank You for this post. I think the problem is that many people, see discipline as only punishment, but discipline also means to teach.

    When I told friends that I ignored my toddlers tantrum they all said ” oh no you can’t ignore you ned to step up with a spanking. You can’t let her run wild like that”. I believe that by ignoring them I am teaching her that that form of communication does not work. It took 2 times for her to learn that lesson. Once I even walked away from her in a mall. That was pretty much the end of tantrums. I think if I hit her I’d still be hitting her becasue the lesson would not really have been learned as well. or some other lesson would have been learned.

    Since most people are brought up with spanking many have no new tools to apply to the situation. They falsely believe that no spanking means no discipline. If you watch Supernanny you see this all the time. Yet you rarely see any AA families on the show. Do they belive that the cure for all the carzyiness is a good whack? Would they not appear on the should for fear of the riducule they would have from their friends and family?

  37. deesha wrote:

    **If you watch Supernanny you see this all the time. Yet you rarely see any AA families on the show. Do they belive that the cure for all the carzyiness is a good whack? Would they not appear on the should for fear of the riducule they would have from their friends and family?**

    Stephanie: A joke/observation I’ve heard on more than one occasion…what would Black SuperNanny 911 look like? It’s even less imaginable that a black family would appear on the show. You raise interesting questions.

  38. Elizabeth wrote:

    One of the hardest parts about my decision not to spank is internal(I am a ‘white’ mom). My husband (black-West Indian) was beaten and has a very authoritarian parenting style. He has agreed not to hit our children and does not seem to struggle with that decision.
    http://myonelovelife.com/?p=28

    But he is hard with his tone of voice -which to ME is like hitting. When I tell him he’s yelling, he says he is not. He has even said to me at times, that our oldest daughter would never do ‘that’ to him (whatever that annoying behavior is at the time).

    This infuriates me, because hitting (or yelling) is just that reminder to our children that they are powerless. He is proud that he has overpowered our daughter in such a way that she is afraid to be herself around him…. I don’t know how or if we’ll ever be on the same page about this.

    My internal struggle is with my girls wanting them to be raised by their West Indian father, how he really is, not only by my white, American-centric point of view. If they are not used to their dad’s tone (as I hear it) how will they feel around his side of the family, living in the West Indies (if they choose)?
    How do I find a balance between two culturally different ways of parenting and putting my foot down to what I see as abusive and damaging to our children???

  39. John Esberg wrote:

    I’ve got to say, I don’t spank because I’ve almost always seen it done in anger. Do I believe pain can be used for keeping kids in line? Yes, of course. People forget it works for the military. Even in today’s politically correct world, pain is often used. People have shown it need only be applied with intelligence.

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