You Are Not Safe Mi’ja: Subway Lessons for My Pre-Teen Daughter of Color

by Anti-Racist Parent columnist Maegan “la Mala” Ortiz

I live along what is arguably the most diverse subway line, in the most diverse borough, of the most diverse city. This has provided me with more teaching moments than I would like. Lessons that I knew I would have to teach my 10 year old daughter anyway but wish I could on my terms, not as a reaction/defensive/protective move. As a NYC mami, you teach your kid the basics of safety. Don’t talk to strangers. Don’t make eye contact. Watch what you touch. But as the NYC mami of a brown young woman, the lessons go beyond that. They go to the core of who she is and her budding sexual identity.

Lesson 1 : Language, Status, and Mami Has More Privilege Than You

When we take the Flushing bound 7 subway home between 5:30 and 6:30 pm, there is a certain fear in my 10 year old’s face. We’ve run into him twice already, a towering white older man who pushes his way into the elevator with us and other mamis wielding strollers, toddlers and shopping bags at 74th Street Roosevelt Avenue. Once on the elevated platform, he continues to push himself through the overwhelmingly brown crowd without a word of excuse me. Instead he yells, “What, people in Mexico don’t have manners? Do you speak English. Do you understand me?” He gets unsettlingly close to a mother with a small girl. The mother looks away as does my daughter, who moves closer to me. He eyes her and me and looks confused, like he’s not sure if she is my child. I don’t look like the other mothers, but my children look like their subway mates, undeniably Latina.

When the train rolls into the station people swarm towards the doors. Again the man begins is tirade, “Esperate!” he says with his New York accent. “Wait and let me the f**k through”. He looks at my girls and me again and when the doors open urges me to go in before him. I take a seat offered by another rider and he gives my 10 year old a push towards me, “Stay close to your mother” he orders her before sitting next to the mother with the young girl. “Do you speak English?” he asks the mother. The mother doesn’t answer with words or gestures. She avoids eye contact.”Do you speak English?” he asks her again, a little louder, a little more threateningly. “Don’t you want to be an American?” He angrily asks her, not really expecting an answer, not really understanding that the Latina mother likely already considers herself an Americana. Centroamericana, Latinamericana. “Damn immigrants,” he spits out, before exiting the train at Junction Boulevard.The scene repeats itself one more time, on another subway ride.

Lesson 2: How to Act Around the NYPD

It is the afternoon after a Latina baby has been left in a cab just blocks from where we live. On my way onto the elevated platform from the elevator I loudly grumble about being pushed around by rude people even though I have a toddler strapped to my body. A white New York City police officer asks me as I turn the corner, “Who’s messing with you?” “No one, ” I tell him and move down the platform a little. “Did you hear about the baby left in the gypsy cab? We think the mother is dead, probably has no papers,” the officer tells me. I nod my head. “It’s a shame really. That mother kept her baby really clean and well dressed. A nice family I’m sure.” He continues. I’m disturbed by the implication of clean Latina babies and pull my children a little closer.

“Did you do your homework?” the officer asks my 10 year old. She doesn’t answer. She’s been taught not to answer police except for the most basic of information. I have too long a history with the NYPD. She has been to enough rallies, marches, and memorials of young men of color shot in the back by officers. It’s not a nice position to be in, to be a 5th grader told in school to confide and rely on police when everything else around her tells her otherwise like the way officers on our block harass a woman selling tamales or check IDs on a bunch of kids only a bit older than her standing outside a barber shop. “Well did she?” the officer asks me. I lie and say she did wanting to avoid him giving her a lecture on the merits of homework. “Good girl,” he says looking at her. As we enter the 7 train, he tells us to be safe. Once inside the train my 10 year old asks, “I thought we weren’t supposed to talk to cops mom?” “Sometimes you have to play nice,” I tell her.

Lesson 3: Public Displays of Affection Are Not Always Welcome

We have just left the 7 train and are on my way to my mother’s, on the R/V line. An express train empties a crowd of teenagers onto the Jamaica bound platform. Among them is a lesbian couple, an African American young woman holding hands with a Latina. The African American girl is crying. “Why would they do that? I’m only 16 and that guy was an old man, telling me that I need a good d**k and not p***sy”. Her girlfriend comforts her suddenly realizing that I am standing within earshot with two children. “Sorry, you didn’t need to hear that, ” the Latina tells me. “No, you guys didn’t need to hear that. What assholes,” I respond. They smile and begin playing with my baby daughter all while discussing the intolerance they face as a young lesbian couple of color.

Maegan “la Mala” Ortiz is a Queens, NYC born and bred radical Nuyorican mami writer, poeta, activista, blogger, and academic coach (trying) to work at home with her two chicas, La MapucheRican (10) and the Poroto ChileRican (7 months) and her very patient partner just known as “el Chileno”. She is an editor at VivirLatino and (poorly) maintains her personal blog Mamita Mala. She wants to write a book or two and is graciously accepting offers for babysitting.

Photo by Lodigs

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Comments

  1. Veronica wrote:

    Thanks for this. My 4.5yo daughter loves riding the train, but we don’t do it often. I’ve found myself hedging when talking to her about what to do if she were to get lost in a store, mall, outside. How do we teach them to go to the police when we have a not-so-trusting view of them too?

  2. KD wrote:

    I was just wondering, did this white older gentlemen say these things when there were men around or just women and kids? I just feel like coming from a dude’s point of view that he probably wouldn’t pop off at the mouth if there men around.

  3. Julia wrote:

    Our rule is: if you are lost and you can’t find mommy- go to the nearest OTHER mommy WITH KIDS and ask her for help.

    I know it is not fool proof… but the best I came up with.

  4. h sofia wrote:

    Maybe that man walking around on the subway is mentally ill. I just can’t even imagine him having the audacity otherwise. Surely, he is playing with fire!

  5. Maegan la Mala wrote:

    Oh there were men around. Not a one said a thing.

    Julia, good rule

  6. Stephanie W wrote:

    I have to say that I am just not feeling it for this post. I think you are doing your daughter a disservice by teaching her to fear police. It is basically just another stereotype you are supporting. My dad and Uncle were AA police in the 60 and 70s in NYC and my bro has had his share of driving while black incidents, but I would want my child to grow up believing that they are there to help. That you cannot judge everyone by the actions of a few. Also it seems to me that the interaction you described with the officer was fairly benign, if not positive. I think it is important to be aware of the baggage from our own experience that we load onto our kids, especially if we are raising them to be anti-racist.

  7. Jen* wrote:

    I get what you’re saying Stephanie, I would also want my kids [when/if I have them] to grow up believing they are there to help.

    However, those were the messages I got from school, Sesame Street, and home [and my uncle’s a policeman] - and I grew up pretty distrustful of the police. Certainly, there are plenty of great officers out there - I know a few. But the trust thing…that’s hard.

  8. sadie wrote:

    “Our rule is: if you are lost and you can’t find mommy- go to the nearest OTHER mommy WITH KIDS and ask her for help.”

    that’s our rule too…that you look for a woman with kids, if you can’t find any, look for two women together, if you can’t find any, look for a woman, if you can’t find any, look for a man with kids, and above all, trust your instincts, that is, look for someone who you feel good about.

    and yeah, you can learn lots and lots about people on public transit.

  9. Lyonside wrote:

    >Also it seems to me that the interaction you described with the officer was fairly benign, if not positive.

    StephanieW, what did you think about the other 2 incidents? Regarding the police: Maybe it’s Maegan’s style, maybe it’s because I was constantly talked down to as a kid by any authority figures who weren’t my teachers or immediate family, but the officer’s comments came across as condescending, not positive. At 10, a comment like that would have made me think a cross between, “Wait, what about not talking to strangers?” and “Why should you care about my homework? Aren’t there crimes to solve?”

    “Clean and well dressed” isn’t far from “clean and so articulate.” And I can see where the homework comment can even be a reference to Latino stereotypes of being poorly educated, if you’ve gotten that your whole life.

    I’m in Philly and the predominantly white suburbs - my mother’s family taught me to respect police, and I do. At the same time, I speak the Queen’s English when I do encounter police, keep my hands visible at a traffic stop, all the goodies, regardless of the color of skin behind that uniform. One or two incidents don’t cause the level of suspicion that is levied on the police in PHiladelphia or New York - systemic abuse of power does. Yes, most cops are OK. But the system isn’t. Until racial profiling isn’t a factor in who gets questioned, held, and arrested, it’s going to be the elephant in the room.

  10. Anna wrote:

    I live in Italy and here you don’t see many white parents with black children. I was on a tram with my 4 yr old when an old man asked me “is that your son?” after hearing my son call me Mamma. I said yes. He asked me, is yr husband black? I said no, my son is adopted. He then asked me (much to my dismay), “WEREN’T THERE ANY WHITE KIDS?”?
    I replied, I wanted a black son. The other old man next to him, promptly said to him, “If you live in Italy, then you’re Italian”.

  11. Andrea wrote:

    And what do you plan to do if and when your daughter is a victim of a crime? You’ve taught her that the police aren’t to be trusted, can’t be gone to for help, and that she shouldn’t even talk to one who’s trying to be nice to her. An anti-snitch culture in the cities contributes to major crime on the streets and makes society less safe for all of us.

    You encountered a crazy man on the subway who uses racist language as part of his pathology. Teaching your kid to disengage from him seems smart. But the cop was attempting to be nice to your daughter and had not done anything to justify your unreasonable assumption that he couldn’t be trusted. The guy making conversation about the unfortunate circumstances of the baby and her mother didn’t say anything overly objectionable either. It’s a tragedy when a kid is abandoned; it’s noteworthy if a family that this man knows to have kept her clean and cared for has done this. Again, what’s the issue there? You risk raising a kid with a chip on her shoulder a mile wide, who looks for and, hence will find, racism around every corner and assumes ill intent even where it doesn’t exist. You might take a closer look at your own attitude here. There’s something wrong with it.

  12. Joanna wrote:

    I take the 7 train regularly and white men (and sometimes women) say things like that pretty often.

  13. gm wrote:

    I understand your distrust of the police because they are human just like everyone with prejudices and biases. Those of us who live in minority neighborhoods have watched them ignore crime with a look of indifference. It is only now that our neighborhoods have become gentrified we are starting to notice a police presence. Now suddenly they care about the same crime we have been victimized by for years. We would like to think they care about us as much as whites but time and time again they have proven they hold stereotype prejudices just as much the next guy. It is sad but sometimes we do have to approach them for help but often are turned away or go from being the victim to the criminal suspect. It has happened to me more than once.

  14. Colleen wrote:

    Here is what bothers me about this post. If it is said different way it would come out like this…

    My daughter and I were waiting for the bus. There was a Hispanic gentleman waiting next to us and he started talking to me about the elections and what I thought of Hillary. I spent years dating a Hispanic. I know these guys. I know this guy thought that Hillary should be back in the kitchen and pregnant. Hispanic men don’t like women who think they have brains. After years of being controlled and mistreated by my boyfriend I am going to make sure that my daughter knows not to trust Hispanic men. It isn’t just the controlling, dominating and threatening but after spending months with my boyfriend sitting through his brother’s trial for rape and murder I don’t want her to end up like that poor girl.

    I was as polite as possible to the guy at the bus stop but got away as soon as possible. Afterward my daughter asked me, “I thought we weren’t suppose to talk to Hispanic men, mom” I said, “sometimes you have to play nice.”

    Judging someone by their skin color or their clothes is WRONG. Even if you have great experiences to back it up. By the way, my above experiences are true but I don’t judge all Hispanics based on my experiences.

  15. deesha wrote:

    **Judging someone by their skin color or their clothes is WRONG. Even if you have great experiences to back it up. By the way, my above experiences are true but I don’t judge all Hispanics based on my experiences.**

    I thought she judged the first man because he was an asshole, completely out of line and threatening…not because he was white or because of any past history with white men.

    As for the cop…we fail to learn from our negative and fatal experiences with them at our (and our children’s) peril. Believing this and teaching our children accordingly, doesn’t somehow bely the existence of good cops. I don’t know why that doesn’t go without saying.

    If I arm my children with tools to minimize their chances of being assaulted by a cop, and they run into some good cops, great! Teaching children to be aware and cautious isn’t the same thing as teaching them not to snitch. What a leap. Reporting a crime and assisting with a criminal investigation has absolutely nothing to do with chatting with a cop if you don’t feel like it, or if you don’t feel his questions are appropriate or warranted. Whatever that cops motivation, friendly or otherwise, Maegan (and certainly not her child) had no obligation to respond.

    Some parents are terrified of what cops may do to their kids, and these are fears born of experience, theirs and others. I believe it belittles the thought and effort such parents put into this aspect of their parenting to paint it as some kind of reverse racism or pathology.

    Here’s one mother’s efforts. I have a hard time believing she does this because she just has it in for cops or because she wants to give her kid a chip for his shoulder. I think she does it because she loves her kid.

    http://christinaspringer.blogspot.com/2008/03/another-boy-tasered-to-death-teach-your.html

    This doesn’t mean that people who don’t parent as she does or as Maegan does, don’t love their kids. Again…something else that should go without saying.

  16. deesha wrote:

    To clarify:

    **Judging someone by their skin color or their clothes is WRONG. Even if you have great experiences to back it up. By the way, my above experiences are true but I don’t judge all Hispanics based on my experiences.**

    I thought she judged the first man because he was an asshole, completely out of line and threatening…not because he was white or because of any past history with white men.

    Adding: The crazy man is the one who initially racialized the encounter, not Maegan. If he had been black or Hispanic making the similar comments, he wouldn’t have been any less threatening and inappropriate. But the fact is, he was white.

  17. Katie wrote:

    I completely support your attitude towards law enforcement, which historically, repeatedly, EMPHATICALLY targets people of color and sexually assaults, imprisons, harasses and murders us, often in the name of protecting us.

    Police brutality is no joke. To teach a child the truth, and tell her how to protect herself, is an honorable thing.

  18. Maegan la Mala wrote:

    Lyonside :

    You hit in on the head. Tone is hard to detect on the internet, but the interaction was far from benign on a number of levels.

    As for my daughter’s relationship with the police. We live in a neighborhood where the police regularly harass people. I don’t have to teach her that. She sees it. What of that? How is she expected to distinguish the good cop from the bad cop? Just cross my fingers and hope for the best.

    I’m radical in my thoughts about this, and I am aware of that, but I believe way more in the power of community than the power of an institution whose roots are fundamentally racist.

    Colleen : What is missing from your offensive and racist comment is the power paradigm.
    I do not have , my daughter has no power over the white policeman, or over the police as an institution.

  19. Margie wrote:

    Ditto what Maegan said in the previous comment. The presence of power in the race paradigm is what makes “reverse racism” a non-starter, in my opinion.

    This post is right on the money. The power is everywhere - in the institutions that Maegan discusses, and others, like the predominantly white mainstream media.

    Trust has to be earned, and in my opinion these white institutions haven’t earned it.

  20. Selu wrote:

    Excellent post, Maegan. For a blog about ARParenting, the level of critical thought… or lack there of, is astounding.

    Why so quick to assume the white man has a mental illness? There’s nothing in Maegan’s narrative to hint that he was mentally ill. The assumption is apologetic while insulting. I see this type of behavior by functional white men when around only women and children of color almost daily.

    As for the police and state-sanctioned violence by the police, mothers of color often have to say very little to their children. As for women and children of color as targets of violence and what are we to do then? Well, one does wonder when the police and the structures that back them up are part of the problem. If we are lucky enough we belong to a community that practices restorative justice… all to often we are not and we learn to get by, live with the injustice. I know very few women of color walking around with the individualistic, white-women’s-syndrome induced delusions that the police are going to be there to help us if we are assaulted, raped and/or murdered.

  21. Delux wrote:

    You might take a closer look at your own attitude here. There’s something wrong with it.

    How would you manage, Maegan, without random strangers telling you how to respond to your own life?

  22. Anonymous wrote:

    Colleen, are you actually saying that a Latino man has the same sort of economic, cultural, and institutional power as a White man who’s a police officer?

    REALLY?

    The two things are *not* the same. I am really tired of White folks who get so defensive over their privilege that they go and draw false equilvalencies. White people are *not* systemically targeted by the cops, we are *not* disporportionately represented in prison, and we are more likely to get good jobs (even when education and experience are the same. Check out MIT’s Poverty Action Lab if you don’t believe me).

    To say or imply that it’s just as WRONG to protect yourself from people who have the power to fuck with your life is breathtakingly ignorant. To save your sermon for a woman of color, and NOT for your fellow Whites who pull this crap, is hypocritical.

  23. Sheelzebub wrote:

    Colleen, are you actually saying that a Latino man has the same sort of economic, cultural, and institutional power as a White man who’s a police officer?

    REALLY?

    The two things are *not* the same. I am really tired of White folks who get so defensive over their privilege that they go and draw false equilvalencies. White people are *not* systemically targeted by the cops, we are *not* disporportionately represented in prison, and we are more likely to get good jobs (even when education and experience are the same. Check out MIT’s Poverty Action Lab if you don’t believe me).

    To say or imply that it’s just as WRONG to protect yourself from people who have the power to fuck with your life is breathtakingly ignorant. To save your sermon for a woman of color, and NOT for your fellow Whites who pull this crap, is hypocritical.

  24. CassandraSays wrote:

    OK, can everyone here who’s scolding Maegan about teaching her kids to be wary of cops please take a step back and look at what they’re saying? Firstly, they’re her kids, she gets to decide what to teach them. Secondly, who are you to assume that you understand the circumstances those kids are growing up in better than their mother, who’s living in the same circumstances, does? Thirdly, sure, there are some good cops, maybe even most of them are good, but all it takes is one bad one to cause a child all kinds of problems. Sometimes a little caution can protect a child from some really bad stuff. Fourthly, if you don’t believe that POC in American cities have good reason to be wary of the cops you haven’t been paying attention.

    Hell, the rules for what to do if you’re a kid and you’re separated from your mom that Lyonside described? My mom taught me those same rules and I’m white. Those are smart rules. Especially if you’re a kid who’s not white.

    A few months ago I ran into a kid whose Mom had obviously taught her those same rules…I was in BART (Bay Area local trains) and a little girl came up and grabbed my hand, clearly lost and asking for help. Turned out she had gotten separated from her Mom in the Christmas crowds. Now there were BART police around (lounging in the booth with the ticket collectors not doing much), but you know what? Looking for a friendly-looking female adult was the smartest thing that kid could have done. Statistically speaking probably a much safer thing to do even if she had been white, which she wasn’t. The idea of a Latina kid approaching some white rent-a-cop for help…nope, I don’t think that would have been a particularly advisable thing to do. People may not like it but that’s the reality. Even if most cops, or rent-a-cops, are decent people, why take the risk of your kid running across one of the bad ones?

    And again…the best judge of how to keep kids safe is almost always their mother. Let’s try to keep that in mind here.

  25. sadie.sabot wrote:

    I thought this post was right on.

    There is nothing wrong with the way Maegan is raising her kids, nothing. Teaching a kid to engage with someone they aren’t comfortable with is teaching them to ignore their instincts in favor of blind submission to authority, which isn’t good for anyone. Sure there’s good cops, but all cops have unreasonable power and too many of them abuse that power. The safest thing is to treat all cops with caution.

    As for colleen’s false analogy, wow! that’s is incredibly offensive! Really, really, deeply offensive!

    Maegan, I’m so glad you post here. You’re obviously striking a nerve and I’m sure it’s hard to get mean and ignorant and defensive responses, but I think far more of us appreciate your perspective and are really glad to read it here.

  26. Andrea wrote:

    Since it’s a blog, I’m assuming feedback is asked for. That was mine. I have no idea what it’s like to live in a big city or to be Latino, so I’ll take you at your word that it’s a pain in the butt, people harass you, and you want to prepare your kid for what she’s likely to encounter. On the other hand, I can make an educated guess about what it might be like to be that particular cop you encountered, patrolling a neighborhood filled with people who seem hostile or wary, who may run again and again and again into the kind of tight-lipped, suspicious front that you and your daughter presented him with. It sounds to me like he was trying to help you out, trying to be friendly, trying pretty hard to practice his soft skills in hope that your kid WON’T be suspicious of him and might go to him if she’s ever in trouble. Maybe he’s the racist big bad cop who harasses everyone on the street corners; maybe he’s like the guy who comes in with guns blazing and kills innocent kids reaching into their front pocket for a wallet or a toy gun. Maybe not. Maybe he’s just a good, probably desperately underpaid, police officer trying to do his job. You’ve already said you’re teaching her not to trust him on the assumption that that’s the sort of cop he is. I hope your approach works, but I suspect that community alone doesn’t always keep people safe. Blacks and other people of color are victims of crime at a disproportional rate and the perpetrators of those crimes are more often than not people in their own household or other people in their neighborhoods — other people of color. At some point you might need the help of that cop.

  27. yunape wrote:

    it’s sad that in an anti-racist site there are some many responses denying or belittling the experiences and opinion of a woman of color.

    the police system is a racist one, and it’s just normal that a mother would want to protect her kids from that and teach them to be safe. that doesn’t mean, as stated above, that every single cop is racist and that there aren’t good ones, but how big are the chances you’ll find one of those, and how would you know?

  28. Mickey wrote:

    As a young Black woman who navigated the foster care system and is now studying governement, I agree with Maegan about teaching her child to answer only the most basic of questions when dealing with authorities.

    I can’t tell you how many caseworkers and police officers would phrase questions to get me to admit my mother did things (like sexual abuse) that never happened.

    That’s not to say I don’t trust people in those positons, but I am aware how even the most benign (sp) comment can open a can of worms.

  29. deesha wrote:

    **Blacks and other people of color are victims of crime at a disproportional rate and the perpetrators of those crimes are more often than not people in their own household or other people in their neighborhoods — other people of color. At some point you might need the help of that cop.**

    And that cop is charged with giving that help whether Maegan’s daughter answers his question about her homework or not. One has nothing to do with the other.

  30. belledame222 wrote:

    Yeah, I know the 7 line well.

    “I thought she judged the first man because he was an asshole, completely out of line and threatening”

    uh, yeah, hello.

    In general, the subway is a place to be on your guard; it’s just how it is.

  31. belledame222 wrote:

    and yeah, that cop isn’t so Officer Friendly: I’d pick up menace too, from the whole “nice clean family” and then not just asking your kid if she did her homework but then -insisting- on a response from Mom when she doesn’t answer. He may not have been overtly threatening, may not even have intended to be (yeah, nuance is hard to tell in text), but just from the description alone I think “creepy and invasive” at minimum.

    funny, that. I’m white, and generally cops tend to leave me the hell alone, which is fine by me. coincidence? maybe. maybe not.

  32. Rosana wrote:

    this isn’t about individual officers, andrea. I think what many are saying is that as an institution, the police have a vested interest in promoting a dual image of themselves that can be very dangerous for people of color if we buy into it. In this country we think that police are here to “protect and serve” when in reality they, as an institution, preserve property and safety for capital and a privileged few. Even the “good” cops are dangerous. Because the police as an institution create an environment of suspicion, mistrust and division in communities of color and poor communities, even the ones who are just doing their jobs pose a threat to our children, incorrectly leading them to believe that they will get the same service and protection, that they are a tool to solving problems & decreasing violence. In the United States that is simply NOT what police do. Police are the business end of the prison industrial complex, they are the conduit by which our children are disproportionately filling up the juvenile prisons and more and more the adult prisons of this country.

    Someone (colleen?) said the anti-snitch culture is what makes our cities less safe. That is completely backwards. A system that the community can’t trust is what makes us less safe.

    Racism, racial profiling, police brutality, harrassment and misconduct is what makes the public safety system fail for everyone.

    For a better understanding of this please do some research. Check out Beth Richie’s article in the INCITE! anthology.

    Maegan, hey girl. Thanks for staying strong and teaching your girls what’s up. I am going to teach mi’jo that about looking for a woman with kids. I had a time when he was two where he pointed at a police officers and yelled, “you’re a jerk!” we have been having many, many, many conversations about what you can and cannot say to police and how to act around them. Its super complicado.

    I’m gonna be up around your way this next weekend. I’ll text you!

  33. Maegan la Mala wrote:

    Rosana,

    Amorcita, I’m in need of serious amiga power so yeah text moi/email moi!!!

  34. cripchick wrote:

    all the cop cars and stations in seoul, corea have little cartoon piggies on it (instead of NYPD name or something)… their rep was so bad and so notorious with all the beatings that they have to make their image “cute” to try and soften people’s perceptions.

  35. CassandraSays wrote:

    Agreed to wha Rosana just said. The idea that the police exist to protect the citizens…where did that come from? Do people actually believe that? The police exist to “maintain order”. The specific problem for POC then being that the idea of what “order” means is inherantly racist.

    The idea that anyone is actually walking around thinking that the police are good samaritans whose only role is to help people out when they’re in trouble…what?

  36. deesha wrote:

    Cripchick:

    I must say to my American sensibilities, it’s kind of ironic that the cop cars you describe choose cartoon PIGS, of all animals they could have chosen, given that historically in the U.S. “cops as pigs” has represented anything but cute! ;-)

  37. ChipAMileWide wrote:

    Who said she was raising her daughter to have a chip on her shoulder a mile wide? I have to agree with that statement. As a mother of color, this column was eye-opening in that I don’t ever want to be that mom who thinks Everything! In! The! Whole! Wide! World! Is! Racist!

  38. Maegan la Mala wrote:

    Trust me. If you met my daughter or myself, you wouldn’t find a chip anywhere on us. We just have a good sense of the reality we’re living in.

  39. Stephanie W wrote:

    First of all to those saying we should not be “telling Meaghan how to raise her daughter”. I thought the point of this blog was exactly to discuss how to raise Anti-racist children. Meghan posted that she thought this was the right way some of us repsectfully disagree.

    All I am saying is that it is one thing to let your children benefit from your experience in the world and another to make them carry around baggage from your experience. In my opinion teaching them some of these things, just ends up chipping away at our children’s self esteem.

    —-Because you are a POC these people will be mean, because you are a POC you can’ t trust all the institutions of government, because you are a POC, Because you are a POC…… —-

    How can hearing that every day not make them shrink inside.

    I know that that fool on the train shouting at those people is wrong. That power is the difference between prejudice and racism. That some police are bad. That they are not always out to “protect and serve”. But should our children, raised to be anti-racist, believe that whole swaths of the population, by virtue of their job category, are suspect!

    Sometimes stuff happens that is racist, often it is also just plain rude and offensive. I want our children to grow up believing that they deserve better simply because they are human with worth and dignity. They should give, ask for and expect respect for no other reason.

    I respectfully suggest that people read or reread ” I’m Chocolate, You’re Vanilla” on raising healthy Children of Color in a race conscious world.

  40. Atena wrote:

    Everytime someone brings up this book, I have to say something. As a person in the field of Early Childhood Education, this is a pet peeve of mine.

    I’m Chocolate, You’re Vanilla is getting a lot of credit for being this great resource, and I fail to see why. It has *some* useful info, but much of the info it presents is just plain inaccurate. Not every book that’s published is a good one.

    If you want something more useful and based on accurate information, try the Teaching Tolerance website: http://www.tolerance.org.

    I think people like ICYV because it reinforces this picture of children as innocent of bias. Kids get differences, people! They don’t get them like we get them, but they are learning and they learn fast!

    I respectfully suggest that if you pick up ICYV, you should put it back down and find something better.

  41. Atena wrote:

    Also, Meagan

    You go, Mama! Parenting is the transmission of culture, and part of some people’s culture is dealing with certain authority figures in a better-safe-than-sorry kind of way. Baggage or not, if your daughter is resilient, she will know what choices to make when she by herself on that train one day.

    Who among us doesn’t have some sort of baggage from our parents? If we parent well enough, our kids will work it out. Such is life.

  42. Stephanie W wrote:

    Atena, thanks for the web site tip. I ‘ll check it out.

  43. Andrea wrote:

    Look, I’m sorry if Maegan feels hurt by the comments she got to this blog. I see on her personal blog that she felt besieged and had all her negative feelings confirmed by “people who just don’t get it” and thought she’d been uncontroversial. On the other hand, people are not necessarily going to agree with her opinions or her child-raising methods and I think they’ve said so in a fairly respectful manner. Those opinions are there for her to look at, accept or reject as irrelevant if she so chooses. I think teaching a kid that the cops are NEVER to be trusted is a really bad idea. On the other hand, even white kids are taught that you don’t speed in the presence of a patrol car, you don’t mouth off to an officer. When the cop came to my door late one night and wanted to search the premises for an escaped fugitive (probably because I lived in a bad neighborhood), I told the guy very politely that he wasn’t there and I didn’t know who he was. He still wanted to come in and search. I told him “no” and he had to respect it. I knew he couldn’t come in without probable cause; the place was a mess and I didn’t feel like dealing with him. I said as much, very sheepishly, with a smile on my face. Some of that was a facade. I had nothing to hide, but I also knew that a harmless front was going to get rid of him sooner. He went away to search elsewhere. I think it’s very reasonable to teach a child his or her rights and to mind her p’s and q’s in the presence of a cop but a cautious, but respectful wariness is different from certainty that you’re going to be screwed over because you’re poor or Latina or black or whatever. I would hope that she’s also raising a kid who won’t have a problem reporting a crime to the police if she ever is the victim of one or a witness to one and a child who will obey all the laws and be a good citizen.

  44. Maegan la Mala wrote:

    Atena,

    Thank you and you know what? There is just some baggage that I still need. Plus I would like argue that my position on the police is more than just a race-based perspective. It is a national perspective, based in years of harassment at the hands of the FBI and other federal entities that people in Puerto Rico are dealing with right now. It is a very real fact that in my neighborhood immigrants are scared because of the latest ICE sweeps across the country.

  45. Atena wrote:

    I think Maegan puts it out there that even if you don’t want to deal with the cops, sometimes you have to, and sometimes you have to “play nice.”

    I didn’t read anything that suggests that she’s poisoning her child against all police everywhere. But just as it would be a bad idea to poison one’s children against all police everywhere, so would it be to instill in them a blind trust and faith in law enforcement based on what popular opinion states that police SHOULD be doing. Protect and Serve, yes, but certainly not everyone. Read up on some history, people. And not FOX News history.

    Many, many cops are dangerous. It is a profession frequently chosen by people who have a desire to exercise power over others. This is a fact. I’d rather my child know this and learn how to determine who to ask for help.

  46. deesha wrote:

    Andrea,

    Since Maegan offered these additional perspectives/reactions to the reactions here on her blog, and not in this forum…I’m wondering why you are sharing these comments here. By doing so, while at the same time repeating at length comments you already made, and venturing into areas of Maegan’s child-rearing that she has not offered up for our conjecture (”I would hope that she’s raising… a child who will obey all the laws and be a good citizen.”)–this just reeks of going beyond discussion, to a personal axe to grind.

    Maybe you’ve got the chip a mile wide we’ve been hearing so much about?

    Re: “Look, I’m sorry…” Really? But fwiw, Maegan never said her feelings were hurt anyway. That’s another case of people hearing/reading what they want to hear/read, what someone is actually saying, bedamned.

    And no, I’m not the ARP police, but thanks for asking. ;-)

  47. turtlebella wrote:

    “I’m sure.. it’s [being Latina] a pain in the butt”

    Did I misread this statement? Because if I didn’t, it’s incredibly offensive to me. Please, try not to dismiss the racism (inherent in our current police system) as being like a sore bum or hemrrhoids or something. Sadly, you have managed to make Meaghan’s blog post sound like she was just complaining, waaaaa waaaaa waaaaa. When in fact, this was not the case. She was sharing her perspective, based on her ACTUAL experience, the experience of her family, her friends, her community, on how and what she teaches her daughter about the police, how the behave around the police. Conjecturing that being a POC and dealing with a police system that has demonstrated time and time and time again that it can be incredibly racist, to even a violent degree, is anything but a huge problem is, as I said, offensive.

    Personally, I was taught, as a young Latina girl, not to trust the police for one second. Does this make my interactions with police/other uniformed authority figures somewhat uncomfortable as an adult? Hell, yeah. Do I regret that my mother taught me this way? No. Because she taught be better to be safe than end up in a bad situation primarily because of who I am/what I look like. Just because there are good cops out there (and certainly there are!), doesn’t mean that we should assume that all police officers are to be trusted, unfortunately. At least until the system is radically different! And I know that Meagan is not advocating that her daughter spit on all cops cos they are all bad, just that she maintain her distance and be safe. Frankly, I think this is probably a better strategy than my mother, who taught me (by example only, but still!) to call cops pigs.

  48. zora wrote:

    Thanks for this valuable perspective. “Safety” is a funny word, it means opposite things to different groups often times. We live in Brooklyn, and my family is white (dad is European immigrant, I’m from the south US). I teach my daughter what I believe to be true, that there may be individual police officers that care and try to do a good job, but that it is a racist and oppressive institution. We are very wary of the police. I would _never_ advise my daughter to find a police officer, were she lost.

    In my closest dealings with the police, as a community organizer, having to work (reluctantly! LOL) with the local precinct at times, all of my worst impressions were reinforced a hundred-fold. As an entity, they literally had very little to do with safety in the community. Except to the wealthy few blocks, which they policed totally differently than the rest of the neighborhood. I once saw a cop almost back over a child on a “playstreet” closed off to cars.

    I can’t speak to the experience of those in other cities, but the NYPD has a long history that really makes it hard to have good expectations.

  49. Maegan la Mala wrote:

    Just to clarify, my feelings aren’t hurt. For some odd reason, I continue to be surprised whenever my experiences as a mother of color get so blown up and instead of people stepping back and asking, hmmm why does this Rican mother feel this way, people put a chip on my shoulder (I’m doing Obama’s brush off here), and tell me what a horrible disservice I’m doing to my children.

    My children are pretty damn awesome if I may say so.

  50. ChipAMileWide wrote:

    RE: “Did I misread this statement? Because if I didn’t, it’s incredibly offensive to me. Please, try not to dismiss the racism (inherent in our current police system) as being like a sore bum or hemrrhoids or something.”

    I feel so frustrated that all discussions of race currently eventually denigrate into picking each other’s words apart and this assumption that Everything! Everywhere! Is RACIST! And OFFENSIVE! All the time!

    I am as saddened by Maegan’s lesson to her children that everything absolutely must be seen through the lens of racism as I am that posters like Turtlebella will hunt and peck and find SOMETHING to be offended about ALL THE TIME.

    I hope, I pray, as a mother of color raising children of color, that I am not weighing down my kids with what is — there is no other way to say this — enormous chips on their shoulder.

    I hope that they will be able to move forward and grow and become amazing individuals without having to stop every few seconds and find something to be offended about, something to find fault with, something to be hurt by, something to be bogged down by, something to puposely drag them down.

    So maybe what I’m trying to say is that I don’t fear them having a chip on their shoulder… I fear that chip turning into an anchor that weighs down each and every thing in their life so that they turn into adults that get offended over something like, ““I’m sure.. it’s [being Latina] a pain in the butt.” And then, on top of it, get extra, overly offensive if you suggest (Oh no!!!!!) that being offensive about it is somehow silly.

    If I’ve raised kids who turn into adults who aren’t resilient enough to go through life without getting offended every six seconds, I’m going to feel like a failure. Because I hope I’m able to teach them to participate in society without being dragged down by it.

  51. noemi wrote:

    that interaction w/ the cop is exactly how I would have handled it w/ my son. I don´t believe in raising my kids to have rose colored glasses-that I constantly have to re-learn stuff to my kids is a reality. teaching kids there is racism does not mean we are teaching kids to be racist.

    because my kids are mexican/puerto rican i will teach them the realities of racism in our society, and also teach them about being a member of a community, their histories, the history of racism and everything else that comes w/ being a radical parent (versus a good citizen because that is up to interpretation). this will not make them shrink inside but teach them the power of change and words, what an awful idea you must have of POC who fight racism.

    seriously, a pain in the butt, that´s how y0u would describe the life of a latina?

  52. h sofia wrote:

    ChipAMile - just so you know, it is possible for a parent or parents to raise their children with awareness of racial reality without the kid growing up to have a chip on their shoulder. I’m one of those kids (now 31).

    I have a healthy distrust of law enforcement, but I’ve still reported crimes that have happened to me. It’s not an either/or situation as you are making it out to be.

  53. Maegan la Mala wrote:

    I think I need to teach my kids to do the Obama brush off for the chip that everyone thinks I’m giving them

  54. turtlebella wrote:

    Chip- I’m pretty sure you already made that point before. It’s getting a bit old. Moreover, perhaps you should allow me to be offended when I feel the need to be and not ridicule me for it. I call things as I see them (and no I don’t spend all my time digging for examples of racism).

    You are, of course (seems like it goes without saying but perhaps not), perfectly free to raise your children however you like! I don’t believe anyone has ever suggested otherwise. But this *is* an anti-racist parenting blog. So you shouldn’t be too surprised when most of the discussions here revolve around racism and that people call each other out when they find something to be racist or unexamined or just plainly badly worded (which I suspect was the case that I cite). I would suggest that maybe this isn’t the blog (or perhaps it’s just Meagan’s posts) for you. You seem to know what you are doing and not want to change. And that’s fine. But give the rest of us the respect and courtesy to discuss things as we see them.

  55. Different Chips wrote:

    ChipAMileWide, you don’t have to assume that people who are offended by something you don’t happen to find offensive are offended by every little thing in the world. You might even consider that you get offended by things that don’t offend them.

    And if you wrote about those things, I’m sure you wouldn’t want people denigrating you as oversensitive. I’d imagine you’d want people to assume your thoughts, experiences and feelings were valid–even if their experiences were different from yours.

    So, save your frustration. People writing here are plenty resilient.

  56. Different Chips wrote:

    “Because I hope I’m able to teach them to participate in society without being dragged down by it.”

    I think most of us, if not all, share this hope with you.

  57. Atena wrote:

    @ChipaMileWide -
    This is a conversation of words in print (on-screen, rather). We’re not talking in real time. I don’t think it’s fair to characterize that particular reaction as assuming that “Everything! Everywhere! Is RACIST! And OFFENSIVE! All the time!” I wonder why you chose to focus on the less significant opener statement about being Latina, and less on her analysis of law enforcement as an institution that can consistently prove itself to have racist motivations.

    And for the record Many Things. Many Places. ARE Racist. AND Offensive. ALL the time. I know it’s exhausting and we want to forget sometimes. But there’s no denying that prejudice and bias in this country are huge monsters.

    I think your reaction indicates that it’s easier for you to dismiss the larger point, and “hunt and peck” for something to disagree with/criticize. I cannot conjecture as to why you do this, but that’s certainly what it looks like. You might consider taking a second look at your (and turtlebella’s) comments.

    Regarding your main point - it’s unrealistic to think that we won’t pass baggage and chips and issues on to our kids. But kids aren’t programmable robots - *they* will decide how to use the explicit information that we give them based on the implicit rules we teach them. The great thing is that we don’t have to be great parents for this to work out in their favor - just good enough parents.

  58. Jodi wrote:

    Your post brought tears to my eyes and I sat within eye shot of our beautiful Ethiopian referral picture. Geda is only three months old, but it breaks my heart to think that I and my bio children will have a different “status” in our society. No…it does more than that…it makes me absolutely sick!
    I will be checking your blog often for insights. Thank you.

  59. Aaminah wrote:

    Ah, now we get to the root of the problem.

    While some are more concerned with making sure their children are raised to not be offended when people say mean and hurtful things to them, I am concerned to raise children that don’t say stupid hurtful things every time they open their mouths and then tell everyone around them that it wasn’t meant to be offensive and that others have no right to feel as they do when they’ve been stepped all over.

    Gotcha…

  60. deesha wrote:

    h sofia wrote: “just so you know, it is possible for a parent or parents to raise their children with awareness of racial reality without the kid growing up to have a chip on their shoulder. I’m one of those kids (now 31).”

    *waving hand* Most people of color I know, and I suspect many of us here, have that same experience/upbringing/subsequent outcome. That’s probably why these doom and gloom predictions ring so hollow. And suspect.

    Experience obviously colors perceptions and the parenting choices we make. Maegan shared how she parents based on her experiences, but never once did she say or even imply that anyone who parents based on different experience with/view of cops is falling short or needs to parent her way or is doing their kids a disservice or has faulty thinking.

    And yet, she has not been shown the same courtesy. Quite the contrary.

    @turtlebella:

    I can’t remember who in the blogosphere made this observation–AngryBlackWoman maybe?–but it was this: So often what’s said is, “I’m sorry you’re offended/hurt” and never, “I’m sorry that I’ve been offensive/hurtful.” The difference is sincerity and motivation.

    Atena wrote: “And for the record Many Things. Many Places. ARE Racist. AND Offensive. ALL the time. I know it’s exhausting and we want to forget sometimes. But there’s no denying that prejudice and bias in this country are huge monsters.”

    It’s maddening how it’s so EXHAUSTING for people to constantly hear about others’ experiences with racism or ways of grappling with it–and yet people of color aren’t supposed to get exhausted or angered or troubled by racism, like to the point of wanting to equip their children to deal with it.

  61. Margaret wrote:

    Maeghan - I haven’t read all of the responses, but it sounds like the “towering white man” you encounter periodically is not only dangerous, but may also be mentally ill. Am I understanding that he assaulted your daughter? I understand that as a person of color you face challenges in dealing with the NYPD. I am praying though that this instance was a least reported. My heart goes out to your daughter. I ride many of the same subway lines (or, I used to rather) in the same city as you do and I can remember being afraid of people for varying reasons. It was a nightmare to be trapped in the same car or bus with them as a little vulnerable kid.

    And for anyone telling Maeghan that she is somehow making a mistake by teaching her kids not to trust the police, let me give you just a short list (from personal experience) as to why you SHOULD NOT trust police and should make sure that your children also SHOULD NOT:

    1) I have two close relatives (that I know of) who were RAPED at GUNPOINT by police.

    2) when my uncle was a nyc cop, he saw a fellow cop think it was just hilarious to toss a young black teenager to his death off a roof in the south bronx. I don’t know what ever came of that cop, but my uncle never made it as a policeman.

    3) before anyone thinks #2 is an isolated incident, my mother has a friend whose husband was a cop….he also saw a young man in the South Bronx thrown to his death by police.

    4) I remember as a kid having multiple neighbors who had run-ins with the police. They were typically teens or in their early twenties and my mother knew their mothers. Yes, often these young men were doing some VERY MINOR things that attracted police attention (having a beer in the street). All they had to do was “answer back” to one of these cops and the result was often multiple broken bones.

    5) Personally being talked to like I was worthless shit by police. This was typically when I was a teen and sometimes I was with friends. They could talk to us like we were garbage and not take our legitimate complaints seriously because we were young, with no power.

    Just a short list…..

  62. Andrea wrote:

    I didn’t feel the need to apologize for expressing an opinion because I think I said what I meant to say. As I said above, my experience is totally different, I live in a much smaller place, and I’m white. I also wouldn’t want to teach kids to believe the police are out to get them, though I do think it’s a good idea to teach them to be very careful not to do anything in the presence of the police that could get them in trouble. I don’t know if that’s another way of saying what the columnist is teaching her daughter or not. Take that in context with who I am and decide I’m completely clueless if need be.

    What I do think may have been an unfortunate choice of words is “it’s a pain in the butt.” I did NOT mean that in the sense that anyone would or should feel bad about being Latina or anything else. What I did mean is that it must be a real pain in the butt to be harassed by some crazy man on the subway or by a cop for race or demeanor or any other reason. Poor choice of words.

  63. Lyonside wrote:

    >I also wouldn’t want to teach kids to believe the police are out to get them, though I do think it’s a good idea to teach them to be very careful not to do anything in the presence of the police that could get them in trouble.

    I think this illustrates the disconnect.

    In an ideal world, the only things that would get a young person or any person “in trouble” in the presence of police would be breaking a clearly defined and equally applied LAW. There would be no fears of police brutality before or after custody, and everyone would get the same quality of lawyer to handle their case if charged.

    As many commentators have said above, and as our own news media reports in spurts and waves, THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN OFTEN ENOUGH. Instead, hideous power-trips like this happen: http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=4674575&page=1

    So… if we DON’T teach our kids that the police COULD do acts like this, and that certain people can be targets more often for “special treatment,” because of who they are and not what they do (not that that would justify bad behavior from those in power/authority anyway)… how do we protect them? Obviously people are harassed by cops who are NOT breaking any laws.

  64. Aaminah wrote:

    Sigh…

    Andrea, I think you just dug yourself deeper.

    A) Yes, some of us NEED to teach our children the truth: the police ARE out to get us. I realize that isn’t your experience, and frankly that is because you are a white woman. But for some of us it is a reality of life. It’s not just you being “clueless” because clueless is understandable since it isn’t your own experience, the problem is you denying our reality.

    B) “What I did mean is that it must be a real pain in the butt to be harassed by some crazy man on the subway or by a cop for race or demeanor or any other reason.”

    No, dear, *this* is a “poor choice of words”. You have now totally MINIMIZED how truly frightening, difficult, and downright dangerous a Latina’s experience in that situation is. And I think that has already been said. I don’t think many took your comment to mean “gee it sucks having to be a Latina” but to mean “aww, that’s kinda hard”. It’s not a “pain in the butt” to be in those situations - it is much more serious than that.

  65. Sewere wrote:

    Take that in context with who I am and decide I’m completely clueless if need be.

    Since you asked, I’ll say it. You. are. completely. clueless.

    Hopefully that will get through to you. In the event that it does not let me add to what others have said much better than I did.

    I didn’t grow up in this country but I got to learn pretty quickly that I should be careful around the police because it almost always has nothing to do with me doing something wrong but being black.

    Here are examples:

    I’m talking to a friend in front of the graduate dorm and Berkeley PD rolls up to me and starts asking questions about what were doing there. The officer didn’t code us as the graduate students that we were based on the fact that we were carrying bags and I was holding a laptop in front of a dorm. No, he coded us as black and troubling.

    I’ve been asked if I needed help while I was trying to get into my office in the school of law. I’ve also had people literally cross the street when they saw me coming. (By the way all of this happened in Berkeley, the utopian paradise were people don’t see color but sure know how to reach when you’re not white.)

    I would add more to this but I’m hoping you get the point. It is tiring having to experience shit like that, writing about it and then have someone who is never going to face that type of racism negates and belittles our lived experiences by telling us again and again how to live our lives and manage the dangerous terrain that is racism. It is so damn tiring.

    And please keep your apology to yourself. No one asked for it and Maegan certainly doesn’t need it to continue to do what’s best for her and her family.

  66. Andrea wrote:

    Obviously, you don’t need to care what I say or why. In the original post, I meant to acknowledge what a pain in must be to deal with the situation she described in the column, among other things. One of the other respondants apparently took that to mean that I was saying it was a pain in the butt for her to be Latina. I didn’t mean that, which is why I called it a poor choice of words. You apparently realized that I didn’t mean it in that way; she didn’t.

  67. more cowbell wrote:

    I’m not really going to jump into the fray too much here, just wanted to say that I am White and my father was a career police officer, and I think that the poster is justified in teaching her children the way she has been. Yes, it makes me uncomfortable to think that, no it shouldn’t be that way, but a lot of things shouldn’t be the way they are. I teach my kids according to reality, not the way I wish things were.

    My dad was a good cop. In my own personal experience as a White woman, the only negative interaction with a cop I’ve ever had was at a community forum when I questioned their assertion that “racial profiling does not happen in our community!” But my experience will not likely be my kids’ experience.

    As others have said, there are good/fair individuals, but the law enforcement system overwhelmingly is not set up for equity.

    My kids are Black, my son, the youngest, is 15. I worry about him getting his driver’s license. He will learn first to keep his wallet in plain sight on the center console, not his pocket. He will learn to keep both hands on the wheel, not to reach for anything, not to conduct himself in any way that could remotely be perceived as antagonizing. He will learn these things before he learns to actually drive.

    I want to thank Deesha (comment 15) for the link she provided.

    I helped start a student advocacy group in my school system. One of the biggest issues we are trying to address is how the school cops in the high schools interact with students of color. Things like a 14yr old being handcuffed, put in a room alone, and being told no, he may NOT phone his family. This child had been instructed to always have family/advocate present, and told the officer so respectfully. I have told my son the same, but if the officers don’t respect that for our minor children, how do you combat that?

    I will definitely be printing out a paper for my son to carry, similar to the link Deesha provided.

  68. Aaminah wrote:

    Andrea,

    It doesn’t matter which way you meant it because they are both absolutely 100% wrong. The fact that you don’t even know what you are apologizing for and don’t seem to care that you are offensive either way just makes it all the more annoying.

  69. deesha wrote:

    Cowbell, I’ll be sure to let Christina know that others found her info helpful. Best to you.

  70. turtlebella wrote:

    Oh I guess I’m the she who took your words, Andrea, the “wrong way.” When in fact I did not– I said, quoting,

    Please, try not to dismiss the racism (inherent in our current police system) as being like a sore bum or hemrrhoids or something.

    It was the fact that dealing with racist, oppressive system is a pain in the butt that I found problematic. As Aaminah said, it’s not a pain in the butt (or anywhere else) - it’s much deeper, more complicated, and more serious than that. And yes, maybe it was “just” a poor choice of words. However, I am hoping that seeing that this was a poor choice of words means that maybe next time you will choose words more clearly. (We can all, if we choose, to learn from past mistakes. I stick my foot in my mouth often. And then I apologize– sincerely apologize). However, I refuse to apologize for being offended by the statement and its implications. And I reserve the right to not accept non-apologies (i.e., anything that says or implies, “I’m sorry you were offended”).

  71. deesha wrote:

    Cribbed from Racialicious. Maegan, you live in NYC , right?
    /sarcasm

    “As a ColorLines magazine investigation documented last fall, blacks accounted for 66 percent of those killed by New York City police between 2000 and 2007 (New York is a perennial leader in police fatalities, averaging 12 a year over those years). And while the violent crime rate plunged to historically low levels in that time period, the number of people killed by police has not budged—indeed, the number of cop bullets fired has skyrocketed. And it’s happened with impunity. Out of 88 fatal shootings, including at least 12 in which victims were unarmed, in only one instance was an officer convicted of criminal wrongdoing.”

  72. HT wrote:

    I live in an area where the police have been getting a lot of negative attention, well deserved in each case, for outright stupid, and often brutal behaviour. The news media have not even touched on racism. I shudder to think what else is being done by those who are there to serve and protect.

    I felt sadness not outrage, at Maegan la Mala’s blog. It is sad that little children need to be taught to be cautious about the adults in the world around them, regardless of colour. I did not interpret anything in her article, that would indicate her teaching her daughter to disrespect police.

    Personally, I have had only positive encounters with police, and any speeding ticket I’ve gotten was deserved on my part. Police have been there when I really needed them to be. I was once one of those people who didn’t think white people were treated any better than those of colour, but I have had my eyes open since. I’ve also been disabused of the notion that there is no racism in Canada. There is definitely something wrong with a society in which being allowed to mind one’s own business in safety, and receive fair treatment, is considered a privilege. That is a basic human right, and everyone should have it.

    As for the police, yes there are many good ones out there, hopefully more than the bad ones. Even one bad apple spoils it for the whole bunch. There does however, need to be better screening, and better training for police. We really do need to get rid of the racists, the power hungry bullies, and the knuckle heads who can’t keep a level head in a crisis situation. Perhaps then little children on subways can genuinely smile and say hello to police who ask better questions than ‘Did you do your homework.’ ( I’m a teacher, and I do think this is a stupid question to ask a little girl on a subway.)

    By the way, thanks for the website http://www.tolerance.org. I will be going there when I finish posting this.

  73. Margaret wrote:

    Andrea - I am a white woman also. Let me tell you a little something about my progression from a predominantly white world as a child to the what I see today.

    We live as white people in this society. I have never once had to worry that I was going to be shot to death when coming out of a nightclub. I have never been pulled over by the police for presumed wrongdoing, I have never had store owners follow me and watch me while I was shopping in their store, I’ve never had people cross the street for unwarranted fear of me, I have never had to wonder, after not getting a job, if race was the factor (even if unconsciously) in my not being hired, I’ve never had to worry that every word out of my mouth, every action I take might be representative of my entire race, I’ve never had someone presume I had a much lower status job than I have. The list could go on and on. There is a wonderful essay on white privilege …I can think of name of the woman who wrote it, Peggy something….maybe someone else remembers.

    My point is that, growing up in a fairly white world, although you may or may not even acknowledge the above, the bottom line is that these experiences are outside of our daily experience. So, to try to better understand where people of color are coming from, I’ve had to try to understand what the daily experience of a person of color might be like. For any given daily experience, ask yourself what challenges a person of color might have faced in that situation that you, as a white person, didn’t have to have a concern in the world about.

    Racism is pervasive in our society. It affects the daily experience of it’s victims, sometimes in ways that I don’t think any of us can ever actually even quantify. That’s why when you refer to someone’s experience of racism as a “pain” it’s trivializing. I think of a “pain” as a minor annoyance. Maeghan is outraged not because she has experienced certain interactions with the police on a single occasion. That would hardly be worth writing an article about or even getting outraged about. What she is writing about is her daily life and serious challenges she faces as a woman of color and mother in NYC. …I know that what she is talking about is true and it’s no trivial matter or minor annoyance.

  74. dianne m wrote:

    I usually just lurk here, but the comments to this post got me. Years ago, I lived in a poorer neighborhood in a city much smaller than NYC.
    The crime rate was not high.

    I told a friend at work about how the cops were perpetually harassing the young black men in my neighborhood - young men who were often just walking back home from highschool (I knew this because they were my neighbors). Any group of 3 or more young black men would be broken up (to be clear - police did not bother other teen-agers hanging out in groups).

    The friend didn’t believe me. But then, he moved to the neighborhood and one night, he called the police because there had been a shooting outside his house and he had seen the gunman running way. He knwew the police were the good guys, so he was doing the right thing.

    When the cop asked him to describe the gunman, my friend said “It was a white man in a brown leather jacket.” And the cops said, “No, you mean a black man in a black leather jacket.”
    Friend: “No, it was a white man in a brown leather jacket.
    Cop: “No, you mean..”

    This went on for about 20 rounds. Guess who was arrested?

    Really, you have to believe people when they tell you what happened to them.

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